FairWarning
New member
By the way, obviously revolvers are "obsolete" relics, but do people still buy them in droves? Likewise for the fundamentally 100+ year old 1911 design. 
Will we ever see a resurgence in steel??
- Thread starter cslinger
- Start date
FairWarning
New member
osbornk said:
Besides, they'd be less effective for "pistol-whipping", wouldn't they? Even if the correct term would be revolver-whipping....
OldMarksman
Staff
Designers of wheels, boilers, mechanical linkages, structural components, blades, and so on have always been limitedly the states of the art of materials and processes of their times.
The stone age gave way to the bronze age. Then came iron and then steel and then other metal alloys.
The predominant methods used for manufacturing parts from things such as rolled steel or steel ingot or bar stock were casting, forging, extrusion, and cutting (metal removal). Each had its advantages and disadvantages. For low cost applications not requiring precision or long wear, sheet stock could be pressed or otherwise formed to shape.
Designers were limited to the materials available; to part shapes that could be made using the aforementioned methods; and to the use of assemblies made by putting together individual components that had been so manufactured.
That was fine. That was what they had. The Colt 1911 was a good design, and so was the J57 engine.
Then some new materials came along. And new methods of making things, far too many to discuss. Individual part designs could be combined into large, complex, integral pieces never before possible.
A designer today is not limited by the materials and factory machines that were available in the Colt factory in 1905.
No, designers today have much, much more latitude in making things mechanical.
Now, if what one wants is a 1911 pistol, a big Hand Ejector revolver, or a Parker shotgun replica, steel forgings and machinings will suffice perfectly.
In fact, that is what one would want, after hashing out a few decisions on MIM parts.
But one wants the best functionality that the designer can provide, it would not be a good idea to tie the designer's hands just for old time's sake.
The stone age gave way to the bronze age. Then came iron and then steel and then other metal alloys.
The predominant methods used for manufacturing parts from things such as rolled steel or steel ingot or bar stock were casting, forging, extrusion, and cutting (metal removal). Each had its advantages and disadvantages. For low cost applications not requiring precision or long wear, sheet stock could be pressed or otherwise formed to shape.
Designers were limited to the materials available; to part shapes that could be made using the aforementioned methods; and to the use of assemblies made by putting together individual components that had been so manufactured.
That was fine. That was what they had. The Colt 1911 was a good design, and so was the J57 engine.
Then some new materials came along. And new methods of making things, far too many to discuss. Individual part designs could be combined into large, complex, integral pieces never before possible.
A designer today is not limited by the materials and factory machines that were available in the Colt factory in 1905.
No, designers today have much, much more latitude in making things mechanical.
Now, if what one wants is a 1911 pistol, a big Hand Ejector revolver, or a Parker shotgun replica, steel forgings and machinings will suffice perfectly.
In fact, that is what one would want, after hashing out a few decisions on MIM parts.
But one wants the best functionality that the designer can provide, it would not be a good idea to tie the designer's hands just for old time's sake.
OneFreeTexan
New member
Slightly off topic
ShootistPRS mentioned ‘ceramics’ possibly being used in barrel, or whatever.
I think it was 30 yrs ago, give or take, a company made smoking pipes, for real tobacco with a ceramic liner. They were actually pretty smooth, cool smoking pipes. I don’t know whatever happened to them..I know collectors are paying high prices for them now.
Makes me wonder if some form of Bakelite might have applications.??
ShootistPRS mentioned ‘ceramics’ possibly being used in barrel, or whatever.
I think it was 30 yrs ago, give or take, a company made smoking pipes, for real tobacco with a ceramic liner. They were actually pretty smooth, cool smoking pipes. I don’t know whatever happened to them..I know collectors are paying high prices for them now.
Makes me wonder if some form of Bakelite might have applications.??
bandanabandit1
New member
Don't think we will ever see a resurgence of steel pistols as the "kings" of the market anymore. Simply because we have better technology (such as polymers) that are more practical to use (cost, weight, etc.). Steel guns will always have a presence however, I just dont think it will be the prevalent choice among shooters.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
There is another similarity with print media. Although some people still prefer print over digital, print media is a business of scale. One of my favorite hobby magazines went digital only a year or two despite the fact I still had a paper subscription.
You can still buy media printed on a hand operated block type press. I know of two place that will print whatever you want on hand operated presses. It is going to cost you though. Actually a quick search shows you can buy a new production press.
In conclusion, some of the best of the old designs are here to stay. There will almost certainly always be small operations making all steel guns and even a new design every once in a while. The large companies making mass market products probably aren't going to put much money into new all steel designs.
You can still buy media printed on a hand operated block type press. I know of two place that will print whatever you want on hand operated presses. It is going to cost you though. Actually a quick search shows you can buy a new production press.
In conclusion, some of the best of the old designs are here to stay. There will almost certainly always be small operations making all steel guns and even a new design every once in a while. The large companies making mass market products probably aren't going to put much money into new all steel designs.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
The way I see it is based on the main purpose of the gun. Is for EDC, SD, etc. as a serious weapon to be used as such. In the case, aesthetics and retro appeal are secondary to whether it is reliable, can I shoot it well and is it efficacious with the round it delivers.
If it is a fun gun, competition gun or the like - then other considerations come into play. I found that polymer, striker guns are what I want for my first usage. I have the other - would they work as a SD gun - probably quite well but I prefer optimal for something that is serious.
Is the F-150 made of aluminum acceptable? Is it a good truck for being a truck that you use? If they make a polymer or carbon fiber one - will it be a better truck for being a truck?
Would folks in the trenches of WWI if give a shipment of modern Glock 17s have some kind of steel hissy fit? Don't think so.
If it is a fun gun, competition gun or the like - then other considerations come into play. I found that polymer, striker guns are what I want for my first usage. I have the other - would they work as a SD gun - probably quite well but I prefer optimal for something that is serious.
Is the F-150 made of aluminum acceptable? Is it a good truck for being a truck that you use? If they make a polymer or carbon fiber one - will it be a better truck for being a truck?
Would folks in the trenches of WWI if give a shipment of modern Glock 17s have some kind of steel hissy fit? Don't think so.
OldMarksman
Staff
That;s the real fusion, I think.
There is little reason to expect a "resurgence" in the use of steel for the frames of new-design semiautomatic pistols. Designers have more flexibility working with new materials and processes.
The question really is whether slides and barrels will likely be made from other materials.
I tend to doubt it. Designers have been putting steel to good use in those components, even with different methods for unlocking the slide from the barrel. The Glock works just fine.
One could probably design a slide from something like ceramic matrix composites. But why? We don't really want our slides to be much lighter, do we?
On the other hand, CMCs just might find their way into the integral parts of frames--the durability and fracture resistance is higher than that of fiber-reinforced composite. But it there a need, considering the necessary service lives.
Time will tell. I have been way from the technology of really advanced materials and processes for a little more than a decade now, and I am no longer knowledgeable of the latest developments.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
For duty pistols that are only fired 60 rounds a year? Police have a lot of musculoskeletal issues from heavy duty belts. For CCWs? Maybe.
Scandium revolvers always seemed like a scam to me, but they have sold a fair number of them.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I have a scandium 1911 - a SW Commander 1911Sc. I truly like it and it's recoil isn't troublesome. A scandium J frame - different story.
There is still a thriving luxury wrist watch industry - despite cheap plastic watches that keep perfect time and have a ton of other features. Steel will never go away. Adding options in materials and construction does not necessarily supplant previous iterations of development.
While capitalism is a wonderful thing, it only survives if companies can continue to convince consumers to consume vis a vis, the cell phone business, latest whizbang guns, etc. All of which fundamentally do nothing that much better than their predecessors.
While capitalism is a wonderful thing, it only survives if companies can continue to convince consumers to consume vis a vis, the cell phone business, latest whizbang guns, etc. All of which fundamentally do nothing that much better than their predecessors.
fostereast
New member
Tupperware vs. Steel
I'm a rookie, but it seems that many new designs are military or police designs or variations on those designs.
Maybe the benefits of the consumer versions are marketing hype, maybe there are real benefits when made available for consumer sales. In general these designs will follow the requirements of the original buyer (military or police) and be weight sensitive, corrosion resistant, etc...
One interesting example of a "newish" metal gun is the S&W TRR8 or R8 327 models with scandium frames. Very nice revolver. I hope to have one someday and set it us as a race gun with a reflex sight and possibly flashlight.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/performance-center-model-327-trr8
I'm a rookie, but it seems that many new designs are military or police designs or variations on those designs.
Maybe the benefits of the consumer versions are marketing hype, maybe there are real benefits when made available for consumer sales. In general these designs will follow the requirements of the original buyer (military or police) and be weight sensitive, corrosion resistant, etc...
One interesting example of a "newish" metal gun is the S&W TRR8 or R8 327 models with scandium frames. Very nice revolver. I hope to have one someday and set it us as a race gun with a reflex sight and possibly flashlight.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/performance-center-model-327-trr8
Doc Holliday 1950
New member
Cslinger,
I just got a steel 2” 357 mag revolver.
After shooting the poly or lighter weight
Pistols/revolvers I can honestly say
that steel rules especially in a 2 or 4”
Gun. It absolutely eats up the perceived
Recoil & allows the average shooter the
ability to shoot a heavier load IMHO. I
Went frugal & spent under $300 for my
Revolver. Now that I know what the diff
Is, I am confident to spend $500-$800
For a top of the line steel revolver.
Thanks for your post
I just got a steel 2” 357 mag revolver.
After shooting the poly or lighter weight
Pistols/revolvers I can honestly say
that steel rules especially in a 2 or 4”
Gun. It absolutely eats up the perceived
Recoil & allows the average shooter the
ability to shoot a heavier load IMHO. I
Went frugal & spent under $300 for my
Revolver. Now that I know what the diff
Is, I am confident to spend $500-$800
For a top of the line steel revolver.
Thanks for your post
disseminator
New member
Yes. I think we'll see a resurgence in steel in the near future.
There are so many plastic guns out there that once you have a few you start wanting something nicer and with gun sales at record highs for years now, that is a lot of pent up demand for nicer heirloom type guns.
I have both, and I EDC a 226 LEGION. So my bias is clear, but honestly, how many glocks does a person need? Do you look at them and think; "Some day my son will have this and give it to his son too..."?
Didn't think so.
There are so many plastic guns out there that once you have a few you start wanting something nicer and with gun sales at record highs for years now, that is a lot of pent up demand for nicer heirloom type guns.
I have both, and I EDC a 226 LEGION. So my bias is clear, but honestly, how many glocks does a person need? Do you look at them and think; "Some day my son will have this and give it to his son too..."?
Didn't think so.