The first handgun I ever fired was a 40 S&W. At the time, this was the most popular caliber for law enforcement agencies. Over the past 16 years, I have watched the 40 S&W fall out of fashion. The 40's seemed to be the slowest sellers at my LGS when the panic started several months ago, but now all of them have been sold. Which do you guys think is more likely: (1) all of the new gun owners who bought a 40 S&W breathe new life into the cartridge and it picks back up in popularity; or (2) the new owners never actually put more than a few boxes of ammo through their guns and the 40 continues to fade? I know there have been too many pistols chambered in 40 S&W sold over the past few decades for it to ever disappear, but it holds a special place in my heart and I would hate to see it become the next .32 acp. or .25 acp.
Will Panic Buying Revive 40 S&W?
- Thread starter wmg1299
- Start date
It was sold as "the" answer to "stopping power". It's still a great round but I don't think it'll be restored to its former glory. I think it'll regain some popularity, coming back from being mocked to just being a great performer: more powerful than 9mm, not as powerful as 10mm can be. Once the police dept trade-ins have dried up (now?), they'll probably be as popular as 45ACP, more so than 10mm, not as much as 9mm.
A very interesting OP. The 40 was for the most part dropped in favor of the 9mm for three reasons,
1. Cost
2. Ease of shooting 9 over the 40
3. Huge improvements in the 9mm cartridge offerings.
Currently when I roime the internet looking for ammo and even in some nearby bog box and LGS, I see bare shelves but on ocassion boxes of 40 cal still at $16.99/bx. A friend who works at one of those big box stores had a customer come up to her with a few boxes of 40 and told her "now I need a gun to shoot these in".
Interesting times.
1. Cost
2. Ease of shooting 9 over the 40
3. Huge improvements in the 9mm cartridge offerings.
Currently when I roime the internet looking for ammo and even in some nearby bog box and LGS, I see bare shelves but on ocassion boxes of 40 cal still at $16.99/bx. A friend who works at one of those big box stores had a customer come up to her with a few boxes of 40 and told her "now I need a gun to shoot these in".
Interesting times.
Ignition Override
New member
wmg1299:
That's an excellent question.
It seems somewhat irrational that people began to treat their .40 S&W guns within the last few years as if they were unreliable, ineffective, or cursed.
If their interests simply changed to guns which only use 9mm Luger, then it appears rational.
If my three German Sigs, the CZ PCR, Walther P99 were each chambered in .40 S&W, then .40 would be my main chambering.
The guns' reliability
and ruggedness
were the appeal, not their specific chambering.
That's an excellent question.
It seems somewhat irrational that people began to treat their .40 S&W guns within the last few years as if they were unreliable, ineffective, or cursed.
If their interests simply changed to guns which only use 9mm Luger, then it appears rational.
If my three German Sigs, the CZ PCR, Walther P99 were each chambered in .40 S&W, then .40 would be my main chambering.
The guns' reliability
and ruggedness were the appeal, not their specific chambering.
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I‘ve been perfectly happy with the 9mm for decades, and the Glock 17 for 15yrs. But I couldn’t ignore the prices of the police surplus .40’s (pre-plandemic).
I ended up buying a G22 Gen4 in about 99% new condition, with night sites, for $279.
With one trip to the range, I was hooked, and the G22, loaded with HST 180gn became my house pistol.
Now, I read that Glock will be bringing out their new Gen5 .40’s in October. They said most production will be going to law enforcement, and that .40 is still their most popular Police pistol. So that sounds like more police surplus coming.
The Gen 5 guns will have a thicker slide, and should prove to be good shooters. As it is, I found the Gen4 recoil spring to make my Gen 4 pretty easy to shoot. I don’t get the complaining about how hard the .40 recoils, but I grew up shooting .44 and 357 magnums.
I’ve always used +P or +P+ in my 9mm’s, and the .40 doesn’t feel much different to me.
I ended up buying a G22 Gen4 in about 99% new condition, with night sites, for $279.
With one trip to the range, I was hooked, and the G22, loaded with HST 180gn became my house pistol.
Now, I read that Glock will be bringing out their new Gen5 .40’s in October. They said most production will be going to law enforcement, and that .40 is still their most popular Police pistol. So that sounds like more police surplus coming.
The Gen 5 guns will have a thicker slide, and should prove to be good shooters. As it is, I found the Gen4 recoil spring to make my Gen 4 pretty easy to shoot. I don’t get the complaining about how hard the .40 recoils, but I grew up shooting .44 and 357 magnums.
I’ve always used +P or +P+ in my 9mm’s, and the .40 doesn’t feel much different to me.
But, but, 10mm is COOL! My friend that owns one tells me this regularly!
10mm could be in my future as I've been fascinated by the cartridge for years and influenced by Colonel Jeff Cooper discussing the Bren 10.
Thing is:
1. I like the 10mm cartridge.
2. I really like 1911 style guns.
3. I don't think I'd like what the 10mm would do to a 1911.
4. I don't care much for Glocks.
5. Maybe I'd be happy with a Glock 20 because I wouldn't care what the 10mm is doing to the gun.
6. Maybe I should get over my idiotic notion that the 1911 wouldn't handle the 10mm.
Note: I too see 10mm on the shelves that are empty of most of the common calibers. Midway USA just had a pretty good deal on 135 grain bullets .40/10mm for the reloaders...about $75 for a 1000. (But shipping costs kind of kills that deal.) And then there's the story of the Norway(?) park rangers using 10mm to kill a polar bear. (Of course there are stories of .22 long killing a grizzly bear so take that for what it's worth.)
https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/be...-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz6UsoITVOj
In 2012 .40 S&W was the last major pistol caliber to sell out on shelves. It's not obsolete in any sense. Not like 45 GAP is. There will be 40 S&W around for decades because there are plenty of pistols chambered in that. It will likely always be priced between 9mm and 45 ACP. Even 9x18 Makarov is still being made at a relatively decent price (pre COVID). Ask again in 50 years.
Kevin Rohrer
New member
No, it it is not obsolete. When I goto my local indoor range (every week), there is plenty of .40cal brass on the floor.
Onward Allusion
New member
Heh, no revival needed except for those of us who have little to argue about in these forums. Glad the previous few posters set the record straight, especially about Glock producing a Gen 5 in 40 S&W.
9mm is the good enough round. It's cheap (relatively) and more people can shoot it accurately than 40 because of slightly lower recoil. Similar framed guns can hold a couple more 9mm rounds.
The other part about 9mm bullet design having improved over the years is also true. However the belief that a similarly designed 115 grain .355" bullet with an in spec amount of propellant can generate more energy than a 180 grain .40" bullet w/in spec propellant violates the laws of physics. Only someone with heavy bias toward the 9mm would argue that. Keep in mind, modern bullet design that can be had in 9mm is also available in 40.
With all that said, almost all my Glocks came chambered in 40 S&W but they all now have a set of 9mm & 357 Sig conversion barrels with them.
9mm is the good enough round. It's cheap (relatively) and more people can shoot it accurately than 40 because of slightly lower recoil. Similar framed guns can hold a couple more 9mm rounds.
The other part about 9mm bullet design having improved over the years is also true. However the belief that a similarly designed 115 grain .355" bullet with an in spec amount of propellant can generate more energy than a 180 grain .40" bullet w/in spec propellant violates the laws of physics. Only someone with heavy bias toward the 9mm would argue that. Keep in mind, modern bullet design that can be had in 9mm is also available in 40.
With all that said, almost all my Glocks came chambered in 40 S&W but they all now have a set of 9mm & 357 Sig conversion barrels with them.
Glad to read this thread. Didn't know the .40 was obsolete and falling out of "fashion."
I guess some people do purchase a certain gun or caliber to be fashionable, but everyone I know and worked with preferred a gun and caliber due to what we considered to be the gun and caliber that would get the job done when needed.
I guess some people do purchase a certain gun or caliber to be fashionable, but everyone I know and worked with preferred a gun and caliber due to what we considered to be the gun and caliber that would get the job done when needed.
Some might consider resale value as a factor in purchasing things too. For example if presented with a surplus P226 in 9mm and in 40S&W I might choose the 9mm because it is likely to hold its value or outpace the .40 counterpart. A new .40 Glock would be devalue quicker than a 9mm for this reason at this particular time. For guns being added to a collection just to have one, I would generally choose 9mm or the cheapest caliber because when I go to plink it (not go to war) I'd like less expensive ammo, all else equal.
Shane Tuttle
Staff
gnystrom said:
wnmg1299, these points are the basis of my theory to provide you with an attorneyesque answer. I think it's a little bit of both of your likely scenarios.
There is nothing wrong with 40 S&W. If I didn't own a 10mm I would own a 40, but can't justify having both.
But the basics, 9mm, 223, and 22LR are still the safest bet if you think long term. Yes, those fly off the shelf 1st and less common rounds take longer to be bought up. But the less common rounds will be bought up eventually. And on the back end of these things the less common rounds will also be the last to be restocked.
Ammo is still being produced and the manufacturers are making 9mm, 223, and 22LR just as fast as they can and NOT making the less common rounds at this time. And won't be making them until they fill all the orders for the basics.
There are still rounds like 40S&W, 357Sig, 45GAP, and 10mm on the shelves along with a few more. But as a buyer I'm limited to the stock on hand and it could be months, maybe more than a year before manufacturers start making any more. If I'm looking for 9mm ammo it will show up on shelves in greater quantity than before. You may just have to be in the right place at the right time. Or place an order and just wait for it to be shipped.
The best long term plan in my opinion is to stick to the basics and have enough of a supply to get through the crazy times. I think that is a better plan than trying to diversify with several other cartridges and less ammo for each.
But the basics, 9mm, 223, and 22LR are still the safest bet if you think long term. Yes, those fly off the shelf 1st and less common rounds take longer to be bought up. But the less common rounds will be bought up eventually. And on the back end of these things the less common rounds will also be the last to be restocked.
Ammo is still being produced and the manufacturers are making 9mm, 223, and 22LR just as fast as they can and NOT making the less common rounds at this time. And won't be making them until they fill all the orders for the basics.
There are still rounds like 40S&W, 357Sig, 45GAP, and 10mm on the shelves along with a few more. But as a buyer I'm limited to the stock on hand and it could be months, maybe more than a year before manufacturers start making any more. If I'm looking for 9mm ammo it will show up on shelves in greater quantity than before. You may just have to be in the right place at the right time. Or place an order and just wait for it to be shipped.
The best long term plan in my opinion is to stick to the basics and have enough of a supply to get through the crazy times. I think that is a better plan than trying to diversify with several other cartridges and less ammo for each.
No I don't think so. The greater demand is still 9mm right now, and when stores have a chance to re-stock, they might stock a little of 40 cal so they don't lose customers, but would they choose to spend more money on 40 or get more 9mm in?
I don't have an MBA so correct me if I'm wrong please.
Perhaps "Fashion" was a poor word choice. I was referring more to sales and manufacturing trends than a sense of personal style. From a marketing/sales perspective I have noticed a tendency for larger manufacturers to hype new releases chambered either only in 9 mm (ex. Sig P365, Springfield Hellcat, Taurus G3, etc.), or putting emphasis on new products chambered in 9 mm/45 ACP/10 mm while dropping production of new 40 S&W models (ex. Springfield XD & XDM lines). Companies like Walther still offer 40 S&W, but in lines like the PPQ they offer multiple colors and configurations for 9 mm, while only offering one .40 S&W.
I am personally fond of the 40 S&W as a self-defense caliber, but consumers cannot purchase something that isn't being manufactured. I am holding out hope that a large number of new shooters could encourage a resurgence, but previous shortages failed to bring significant numbers of .32 ACP and .25 ACP back into production. The advantage 40 S&W has is that it is still a very effective caliber, where .32 ACP and .25 ACP lagged behind other similar calibers (ex. .380 ACP) in performance. That's why I'm wondering if this shortage may be able to bring .40 S&W back into mainstream consumer production.
A 1911 pattern gun, designed from the ground up for a 10mm will handle it just fine.
A 1911 gun adapted to use the 10mm could have issued. Colt Delta Elite had some issues, but I think they got the major bugs worked out.
When it was in production the LAR Grizzly came in 10mm. I've had them in .44 Mag and .45 Win Mag, and doubt there would be any issues with the 10mm in one of those guns.
Will panic buying revive .40 S&W sales? I doubt it. Lots of people went for the .40 S&W when it was the new thing, and the cops were switching to it due to the FBI's adoption of it. Now, the blush is off the rose, so to speak, Its an adequate round, but it has drawbacks (everything does, of course) but its not clearly superior to other rounds in several ways.
IF you want to get one because ammo is the last thing on the shelf, do consider WHY the ammo is the last thing on the shelf.
S&W-Keeper
New member
Try the S&W model 610.It will change your mind.
Powernoodle
New member
RETG said: "Didn't know the .40 was . . . falling out of fashion."
Sales of .40 guns and ammo and dropped off precipitously in the past few years. Of course it fell out of fashion. You know this. Everyone knows this.
Sales of .40 guns and ammo and dropped off precipitously in the past few years. Of course it fell out of fashion. You know this. Everyone knows this.