Will my guns be seized?

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The fact we have to speculate on things like this makes me burn with a hard, deep, anger. The socialists that rule and the sheeple who don't know anything or care to learn are beneath contempt.

GGG. What will happen is suddenly it will be illegal to sell or produce ammunition. It will be some oblique political move like that, making our weapons useless in the long term.

But before any thing like that happens.....
DO SOMETHING! DO MORE THAN YOU ARE DOING!

Please. Write your Senators and Congressmen more. Support those groups that are fighting the enemy. Glock's legal defense fund for example. www.libertydefense.com www.citizensofamerica.org www.gunowners.org www.nssf.org
These are some of the groups on the front lines. Check them out again and give a hand.

GET INVOLVED. I'm not trying to annoy anyone, but please, do some more fighting. Do some more writing. Do more.
Pen and ink now could save rifle and blood later.



[This message has been edited by Shin-Tao (edited May 16, 2000).]
 
Actually that's:
http://www.libertydefense.com/

However, if they can hold out (I feel sorry for them, even S&W, remember, the govt. represents US, it is US attacking them!!)

best chance for THEM is to get Bush elected.

Now, that won't save what's left of RKBA; but it will end this particular attack.


Battler.
 
I will never bury or hide my guns, I will never back down from anyone and I will defend myself and my constitutional rights against ANY aggressor who tries to deprive me of them.

pojim
 
'pears to me that these forums are good places to find "lists". I'm getting creepy-crawly shivers. Guess I better gear up --- again.

BTW, how long is ammo good for? 5-10 years?
 
Well, folks I recently wrote a rebuttal to an anti's response to a post I'd made recently in my local paper, Wheww!!

One of my replies to this "guy", who happens to be LEO in my town, was about when I lived in Germany for a couple of years.

I met some very nice people, some were truley Golden in Spirit. One particular woman, who I rented a flat from, used to tell me about the war, that'd be WWII.

She told me about the roving crews of soldiers who were accompanied with the local police. They would roll up in the trucks, and enter a house, breaking down the door, and haul out an entire family. Man, Woman, and child.
She told me that many times they were never seen again, and these folks weren't Jews either.
She also mentioned times when the same trucks would come, and take people out of their homes, or apartments, and line them up against a wall, and execute them.
Supposedly for crimes against the Reich. She'd mentioned that these people had made the government angry because they had written articles in their papers denouncing the actions of the government. These people had been warned by friends and family not to do that, but the felt they had to speak out, before it was too late.

One time she told me, in tears I might add, that this all happened because most of the people were already unarmed, and were deathly afraid of the military, and government. At that point, they were basically helpless to do anything.
She also mentioned that all this occured before 1943.
You see, she was living in Bitburg, Germany her entire life, which is where we were when she told me this.

I remember walking the streets of Bitburg, and seeing the scars of some of that on the buildings. There were bullet holes in the stone faces of the buildings, and sometimes you'd see where a bullet had struck some wrought iron, and gouged a circular trough through it.

I also remember going on Volks Marches through some of the hills in the area. Once I came across the shell of an American tank that had been destroyed.
This was the area of the Battle of the Bulge. Not too far from Bitburg, very near Luxembourg.
I wasn't compelled to crawl all over it, like an errant schoolboy, but I instead gave a moment of silence to those who died in the vehicle. As I type this, some of the emotions come back to me. I seem to recall thinking I'm sure glad something like that could never happen here, in America.

Something most men, and women, should have the opportunity to see, is a country that was torn to shreds because of a government that had become out of control.
I know I was forever changed seeing some remains of that war.

Can we afford to allow our government to slide any further toward that eclipse into Hell?
What do we need to do to avoid this?
What will we do if we can't stop the erosion already done, and it collapses?

Are you ready, mentally and physically, to take the stand our ancestors did 150 years ago?

I think I already know the answer from most, if not all, here at TFL, but what of the others out there?

Best Regards,
Don

------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited May 16, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jay Baker:
I agree... snipped [/quote]

I don't know about you, but The Great One will be some distance away when they knock on his door. The Rock will perform AT&T on their jabroni selves and they proceed to layeth the smackth down on their candy ass.

And for those of you who don't or can't believe that, The Rock has 2 words for you:
S*CK IT.

If The Rock must, The Rock will.

TR
 
To The Rock...


My sentiments exactly..

Best Regards,
Don

------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
 
If the GGG ever did start, due to Al Gore's great invention of the internet, I would guess the biggest problem would be the shortage of ammo within 24 hours.

Questions I've always wondered about:
Is there a National Strawman's Association?
Are FFL holders required to keep their 4473s in fireproof safes?
Can you really buy Kevlar by the truckload?
Is it true Sam's Club carries C4 by the case?

RKBA!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>if you ever get the "knock on the door". Chances are if it comes to that, they won't care whether you said you've sold the weapons or not, they will search your premises anyway.[/quote]

So what if I quoted 2nd Amendment to them if this happened? It is MY RIGHT!!!! To keep and bear arms. Grrrrr....
 
So what if I quoted 2nd Amendment to them if this happened?

The jackbooted thugs pouring thru your door are not there to discuss fine points of constitutional law with you. They have a search warrant (however badly obtained) to sieze all guns in your house. If you get in their way, they will remove you from their way very quickly and forcefully.

Discussing the 2nd Amendement will be the job of the DA and judge _after_ the JBTs have shredded your house, taken all your guns, ammo, and vaguely related papers, put them into one-way storage, and thrown you into a cage.
 
Interesting thread.

Rock will die with honor, as will a few other "criminals" or "domestic terrorists".

The rest of us will continue to “do what’s necessary” to put off, for as long as
possible, the historically inevitable. Guns will be outlawed.

As Chris points out, “... I see them continuing to nibble away, one bite at a
time like they have been, with the bites getting bigger each time.”

The bites may not be bigger each time due to fluctuating “responses” to gun
owners. But there will be bites. We will call them “reasonable compromises”
but the gun grabbers will give up only part of their demands while we
continue to give up part of our Rights.

Getting nothing in return for our weakness, we will save face by calling our
losses “compromises” and praise ourselves for our brilliance and tactics at cutting our losses, time after time.

Proudly we will continue to think, “Still sounds a lot better than Australia, Japan, Great Britain, Rwanda, Kosovo, or 1943 in Germany.”

Each generation will accept the laws on the books, accept “reasonable
compromises”, and be satisfied with the decreasing Rights they still have.

This will continue until we are “civilized” like Europe, Canada, Japan, et al.
This will continue because, in spite of all our vocal and written protestations,
we continue to support the very people who will take our guns away. And
those people continue to take our guns away! Step by step. Inch by inch.
Bite by bite.

And we will continue to posture and beat our chests with pride as we praise
each little loss as a “victory” until we have little or nothing left to lose.

Liberty in the United States will not die with a bang. It will die with a whimper, because most Americans do not even *recognize* Liberty and Freedom!

And those few Americans who believe in Liberty or Freedom will not even vote for it - let alone fight for it.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited May 18, 2000).]
 
Yall need to become anonymous as best as can be done in the short time we have left. That means defeating the paper trail, stop using your SSN, stop buying weapons through FFLs, stop buying ammunition through mail order using your credit cards, and a host of other less obvious tactics.

I'll say it again...IF YOU PRESENT YOURSELF AS A TARGET, YOU WILL BECOME ONE!!!

We cannot use logic to attempt to answer how firearms purchased through FFL dealers end up on a federal database, but they do. You will never hear any government official admit to it either...because it is ILLEGAL. Why do you think the gun grabbers want private sales at gun shows to go through the same process as federally licensed firearms dealers? To prevent crime? C'mon people!

And no one can predict if, when, and or how confiscation is planned. But most of you are looking at the idea of gun confiscation very, very selfishly. Like it will only effect you. Get real.

Buying private simply begins to turn the valve OFF. It won't stop tyranny, it just cuts off the source of information that you've been so willingly happy to provide that they can use against YOU! By selling some of your most recently purchased weapons privately, you place more inventory into the pool for private purchasers, the same inventory you'll be buying new arms from.

If 50% of existing gun owners begin to rotate their own hardware this way, eventually you and most others doing it, will end up with hardware with no paper trails. Stay with me...this is hardware that no federal agency knows you have. If anything, it buys you some time to either get out of dodge, or to set up a perimeter. But it reduces your profile as a target, because you go on buying what you need, and no one knows about it. You also rotate your "registered" goods into the private inventory, which gets them out of your home.

Forget about thinking in logical trusting terms. DO NOT TRUST THE SYSTEM! The cards are stacked heavily against you.

Here are some needlessly obvious observations...1) We are under heavy attack as American citizens to be disarmed, 2) Reasons given for this disarmament, defy logic and fact, 3) As a gunowner with federally registered arms you are a direct target of this disarmament, 4) Those at the top of the hit lists will be primary targets (FFL dealers, FFL purchased weapon owners, CCW/CHL holders, and members of established militias), and 5) The Executive Branch of our government has already set-up through a series of Executive Orders, the means in which would turn our "Republic" into a totalitarian state with the stroke of a pen.

Number 5 is the one that most of us ought to be thinking about. This would, among other things, envoke martial law, which would create a host of problems for Americans and their rights as "free" people. It is already a foregone conclusion that foreign nationals are currently being shipped into the U.S. for various "training exercises". Most of us suspect they will simply become part of a multi-national "peace keeping force" (some say "World Army"), when the time is right.

Local police officers are realistically not going to be a part of "enforcing the law" upon the stroke of that pen. Few American LEOs see firing upon their fellow Americans as "serving and protecting". Furthermore, U.S. troops are of similar persuasion. So that effectively leaves foreign nationals under the command of some quasi-NATO-World Army to do the dirty work.

Stop thinking that it can't happen here. The cards are being stacked against us on a daily basis. Don't present yourself as a target, or you will become one.
 
Have to note that a case of ammo lasts three days of plinking...but would also last enough ambshes to replace each spent round.

The big question is always "when". Success requires initiative rather than a response, as the enemy has resources to over-awe any individual into a surrender or a wasted attempt to fight.

The other issue is who to fight. I'd think C3 would be the obvious goal and few of us know how to find them. Ooops :(
 
A number of the responses in this thread made references to things getting so bad that they might feel compelled to bury their guns.

If you follow this line of thought, how bad will things have to get before you feel a need to dig them up?
 
Oleg...

The answer to your "who" question is...the ones giving the orders, to those giving orders, to those giving orders, to those giving orders. Did I lose you?

Just please don't GUESS who they are. Research it...do your homework.

Imagine the "who" being an octopus which has entrapped you in its eight seemingly powerful legs. Each leg has thousands of tentacles grasping you from every angle. Defeating one hundred tentacles on one leg only causes the other legs to tighten their grip. Severing a leg has similar results. But sever the head...remove the brains, and the entire beast is dead.

[This message has been edited by Paul Revere (edited May 18, 2000).]
 
Much is discussed of confiscation. A thought occurred to me: what about the long-term evolution of weapons? Firearms tech has changed significantly over the 20th century; what about the next steps and legal aspects? Observation: significant new developments will occur, but current and near-future law forbids citizens from benefitting from the next steps in weapons technology. The 2nd Amendment guarantees a balance of power between tyrants and criminals on one side, and citizens on the other; the gov't is already set to upend that balance, and criminals will merrily follow, while us law-abiding common folk are stuck with 1960's tech.

Weapons technology marches on, and the gov't has set up a barrier that prevents commoners from using future developments. Yes, a Barrett '82 .50 cal will punch nice big holes. Yes, a well-placed .45 will do the job. So will a sword, mace or rock...but those have largely been abandoned in favor of more advanced tools which have distinct advantages. Future tools will have distinct advantages over the .45 and .50BMG; while the latter will continue to work quite well, new developments will upend the balance of power in favor of those permitted by law to own them - a group that does not include us. Yes, a highly-motivated group can use old tech effectively and triumph, but at a substantial cost that newer tech lessens.

5.7mm compact high-penetration rounds, programmable-distance 20mm rounds, tungsten ammo, and other really goofy & powerful stuff are coming on the market - but we're not allowed to shop. Laser-guided bullets and other sci-fi techs are being designed - believe that legal prohibitions will arrive first.

The "antis" are working on a long-term strategy. They know they can't take everything from us now. They know confiscation won't work. But by setting up fences to prevent us from entering technological areas that aren't developed and we don't want to enter yet - but we will
want to - they have already cut off where we may go in the future. Your AR-15 will not be your preferred tool in 30 years...and what you will want is being prohibited now.

Some antis want civilians to give up their semi-autos and return to muskets. They know they can't do that now...but with forward thinking they can do that to the future. By setting up currently unopposed legal barriers now, in the future where an AR-15 is viewed the way we view a musket now, we will be stuck with "useless" AR-15s and groan that much earlier laws prevent owning something far superior.

Be content with your .45 or .50BMG if you like. Just recognize the particular advantage that the FN P90 has over anything you can own...and a web of laws prevent you from buying this next-generation subgun, and anything that will follow it. You are stuck with current tech. The gov't isn't. That battle is over and our side didn't even notice it was starting.

[This message has been edited by ctdonath (edited May 18, 2000).]
 
CT,
Just when I thought things were really bad, you show us that things are worse than that.

Grr. I don't know how to thank you! :)

What you say truly seems correct. Therefore, because this thread is now at 100K, let's start part 2.
 
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