Will HOT 10mm Kill a 1911?

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weblance

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I shot my Ruger SR1911 10mm today for the first time. I also shot my SR1911 LW Commander 45 and my SR1911 Officers 45. I shot 10 rounds of Underwood 165 gr 10mm, as well as some Remington 180 gr FMJ 10mm. Needless to say, the Underwood is a BIG step up in power, compared to the Remington 10mm, and the 45 acp ammo.

My question is... will a steady diet of high power 10mm kill a 1911?

Anyone have a high round count 1911 that has digested mostly high power ammo?
 
A long enough diet of any round will eventually "kill" a firearm or at least require repairs. As a fan of the 10MM and an owner of a Delta Elite I have no doubt it takes less shots of 10MM than .45 to create issues but not so few that it is a problem.
 
I'd definitely be interested in responses to this...

Especially about the Dan Wesson Valor 1911 in 10mm
and
The Rock Island 1911 10mm
as well as the Ruger.

I've always thought the Valor was the "premium" gun and the Rock Island was the "budget" gun but since I don't own either one I'm will to be corrected.

Also Ruger has a history of beefing up their guns. Are their 1911's sturdier than other manufacturers? Did they beef up their 10mm over their .45 1911?
 
Keeping it properly sprung (and replacing springs at designated intervals), and installing a fitted EGW f.p. stop, will allow a 10mm 1911 to run indefinitely.

The Colt Delta Elite of Master Pistolsmth Richard Heinie has digested something like 10K rds of 'real' 10mm ammo and is still running strong.
 
has digested something like 10K rds of 'real' 10mm ammo and is still running strong.
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10,000 rounds isn't really that much when you compare it to pistols with 200,000 to 300,000 rounds through them.

When the 10mm 1st came out there were lots of issues with 1911's not being able to handle the round. I believe that many of those issues have been addressed and the 1911's designed from the ground up are doing better now. I still wouldn't choose a 1911 as my preferred 10mm platform.

Any time you start running hotter loads through any pistol you're going to see the life expectancy reduced. A steady diet of 9mm +p is going to wear out a pistol a lot sooner than standard loads.

BUT... it still takes a lot of rounds and if the power is worth it, then go for it. 10,000 rounds of 10mm is going to cost you about $4000-$5000 in ammo. And if you decide it is worth the cost of ammo and premature wear on the gun that is all that matters.
 
DaleA said:
Also Ruger has a history of beefing up their guns. Are their 1911's sturdier than other manufacturers? Did they beef up their 10mm over their .45 1911?
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Ruger can't beef up their 1911s the way they beefed up their single action revolvers. The Blackhawks and the original Vaqueros are physically larger than a Colt 1873 SAA, with (particularly) a bigger, beefier cylinder to handle hotter loads. The chamber of a 1911 is integral with the barrel and the outer dimension can't be enlarged without enlarging the slide, and then all the dimensions of the gun are off.
 
I wouldn't worry about an occasional box of hot loads,
but if it were Underwood all the time,
checking the slide stops every 250 rounds would
quickly become part of my maintenance routine.

My Glock G20SF eats a lot of Buffalo Bore,
since I'm fairly OCD about it, it gets checked after
every range visit...it's had 11.5 K rounds through it,
but it still looks like a brand-new pistol :)

Main concern should be Springs...my personal belief is that
hunting pistols and Shooting Sports pistols should get
a new recoil spring every 5K rounds.
This tends to alleviate slide battering.
This also may be overkill, but better to err on the side of caution
when dealing with Magnum Forces.

Also, keep a Dope Book on EACH gun you own.
Keeping track of round count may or may not be vital,
but it sure is nice to KNOW!! It's also nice to keep track
of all the changes you make, and mods, and whatnot!
 
I thought I wanted a Ruger 1911 in 10mm, but decided I could live without it after handling a Kimber 1911 in 10mm. I do like 1911s but compared to the simplicity of my Glocks and lower capacity for the 1911 I didn’t feel spending the money on one was justified. I do love my Glock 40 with the Vortex Venom sight on it!

I agree with above posters, keep an eye on wear parts, replace when needed and you should be fine. The guns are designed to shoot “standard loads” for that caliber.
Remington brand ammo is notoriously underpowered, typically loaded to only 40s&w levels, and should not be considered a standard 10mm load.
 
The higher powered ammo will wear the gun out faster than lower powered ammo. That's just how it is. I don't know if this matters or not but the gun won't last as long.
 
When the 10mm 1st came out there were lots of issues with 1911's not being able to handle the round. I believe that many of those issues have been addressed and the 1911's designed from the ground up are doing better now. I still wouldn't choose a 1911 as my preferred 10mm platform.
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I agree with JMR. I did a fair amount of internet sleuthing on the topic a few years ago. Ultimately I decided that the 1911 platform isn't the best option for 10mm. To be fair, EAA Witness had their issues with 10mm too. The Sig P220's may hold up ok to it, but there's so few of those creatures around that I don't think the verdict is completely in. Full power loads in 10mm are stout. They will wear a firearm if it isn't built to handle it. I ultimately decided that a G20 was my go-to 10mm platform.

Not saying a 1911 in 10mm is a fools choice. I'm saying it has it's limitations. For folks who run mostly "40s&w +p" 10mm a 1911 would likely be fine. I reload, and to me the point of shooting 10mm is to shoot 10mm. Not at the ragged edge of the gates of hell, but full power none-the-less.
 
Agtman said:
Keeping it properly sprung (and replacing springs at designated intervals), and installing a fitted EGW f.p. stop, will allow a 10mm 1911 to run indefinitely.
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I asked Bill Laughridge of Cylinder and Slide fame the same question and got the same response. It will need a stiffer spring to handle the recoil and slow down the unlocking.
 
I don't know about the 10mm, but I had a "real" Coonan when Dan was making them and I ran it for two years with full power loads and it got shot a LOT. I'd guess probably 20,000 rounds? It was as accurate and tight at the end of that time as when I got it. I simply replaced it with a Custom Les Baer from Briley in 38 Super. I'd guess you could wear one out, but it would take a while for most shooters.
 
Keeping it properly sprung (and replacing springs at designated intervals), and installing a fitted EGW f.p. stop, will allow a 10mm 1911 to run indefinitely.
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My DW Razorback has about .020" radius at the bottom of the FP stop, I installed it myself, plus I installed, and some will argue with this, flat wire springs, they last far longer, and maybe indefinitely.
 
Also, keep a Dope Book on EACH gun you own. Keeping track of round count may or may not be vital, but it sure is nice to KNOW!! It's also nice to keep track of all the changes you make, and mods, and whatnot!
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Those are wise words, people. Those little vest-pocket spiral notebooks are great for that sort of thing, even in today's digital world.
 
Yes, full power 10mm loads are hard on the 1911. That was demonstrated the first time around with the 10mm. The Glock 20 fared well, and I don't recall hearing of any issues with the S&W 10XX series. But the 1911s got beat up with full power 10mm loads.

Appropriate springs and FP stop will reduce the battering some. Even then, you might only get 20k full power loads before things need serious attention.

I wonder if many of the long slide 10mm 1911s are a bit of an answer to increased longevity. The extra slide weight may offset some of the 10mms power.

All that being said, a 1911 10mm still appeals to me. If I had one, I would probably back off the loads just a little most of the time and enjoy the 10.
 
Ruger can't beef up their 1911s the way they beefed up their single action revolvers. The Blackhawks and the original Vaqueros are physically larger than a Colt 1873 SAA, with (particularly) a bigger, beefier cylinder to handle hotter loads. The chamber of a 1911 is integral with the barrel and the outer dimension can't be enlarged without enlarging the slide, and then all the dimensions of the gun are off.
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So what if the dimensions are "off"???
Ruger isn't making the pistol to meet a GI contract. No one is these days, and only those claiming their guns are "GI spec" are even trying to be close.

Anyone who makes a 1911 type gun, or parts, and says "some fitting required" is making them with dimensions that are "off". I don't know about the Ruger 1911, but I did have my son's S&W 1911 for some time while he was overseas. Very nice gun. GI/commercial 1911 grips would NOT fit the gun. Grip screw spacing was "off". Intentionally, no doubt.

I don't know if Ruger DID "beef up" their 1911, compared to the original Colt/GI specs, but there is no reason why they couldn't.

Will hot 10mm kill a 1911?
Not if the 1911 is properly designed and built for the 10mm. Guns adapted to the 10mm could be a different story.

I've got a Coonan .357 and an LAR GRIZZLY in .45 Win Mag. used to have one in .44 Rem Mag. These ARE 1911 pattern guns, though not, obviously GI MilSpec 1911A1s. The base design can and does handle the pressures, WHEN it is properly built to do so.

And just an FYI about Ruger's Blackhawks being bigger than Colt SAAs. It wasn't done to make them stronger. It was done to be certain they would be AS strong. Ruger was pioneering a casting process that was making cast parts for frames and receivers, which had always before been forged parts. Even the best cast is not quite as strong as forged parts of the same size. So, to be absolutely certain their frame were going to be as strong as the forged frames (Colt, etc) they knew their casting would need to be a little bit bigger. According to legend, Ruger decided to make them a little bigger than the needed minimum.

Bigger frame = bigger cylinder (which is a forged part) and so they turned out to be stronger than the Colt SAA. Ruger's NEW VAQUERO is exactly the size of the Colt SAA, (and just as strong) but that design didn't come along until after more than a half century of experience making Blackhawks.
 
Shot a stock, factory, Colt Delta Elite(those Colt reps are great guys. One of 'em let us play with an M16K at Second Chance around the same time.) when they first came out(about 1988) using the only ammo available at the time, Norma. The Norma 10mm was just like a hottish .45, but nothing special. A Delta Elite isn't a standard 1911A1 though.
SAAMI max pressure for the 10mm is 37,500 PSI vs the 21,000 PSI for the ACP.
 
I've owned several 10MM pistols and revolvers, the first being a Bren Ten. I had a Delta, and did shoot the old Norma 200@1200, 170@1300, etc. ammo, and equivalent reloads, in it. One time I was shooting with a guy who had formerly owned a Delta. He said his Delta cracked through the top of the slide, through the locking lug area. He indicated Colt replaced the gun, but he immediately sold it without ever shooting the replacement. I didn't see the gun, but that is what he related to me. I later had a Kimber 10MM, and much preferred the kimber; excellent case head support, closer fit of barrel/slide/frame,etc. Much as I like 1911 type pistols, and the 10MM cartridge, I don't think the 1911 is the best platform for use of the "real" 10MM ammo. Using approx .40 S&W level ammo, no worries. But the real 10MM,e.g., Buffalo Bore ( 180 @ 1380 FPS in my gun) not so much.......ymmv
 
If you beat it to death...Ruger will fix it .
Hot heavy loads take a toll on firearms just like drag racing takes a toll on a car.
But you bought them to shoot and Ruger will warranty their guns when used with factory loadings.
Don't be afraid to shoot them .
Personally I like the 1911 in 45 acp .
Gary
 
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