Will food prices be that proverbial straw?

J

jimpeel

New member
The current lemming-like rush to ethanol has created the usual unintended consequences that politicians never seem to address. This time, however, the very food supply of the nation is at risk as they sing their siren song "ethhhhhanoooollllll".

Milk, meat, and poultry prices are escalating. The Great Value (store brand) milk at Wal-Mart went up $1.18 in a week from $2.50 to $3.68. Premium brands, like Meadow Gold, are over $4.15.

In addition, the prices of beer and tequila are slated to escalate as the farmers in Mexico shun the Blue Agave for corn which has doubled in price there. Food riots in Mexico over the price of the tortilla were narrowly averted by the government stepping in and placing price controls on corn.

Beer will become more pricey as farmers move away from barley.

In the United States, the feeder corn prices have escalated as the rush to ethanol depletes the supply.

Farmers are switching to corn crops for the ethanol subsidies and the results of that shoe are yet to drop. If soy farmers are lured we could see wholesale crisis in this country.

It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol that the energy it can produce. If every aerable acre of land in the entire United States were to be planted with corn; and every ear grown turned into ethanol, the offset of foreign oil would be a mere 17%.

The United States is teetering on the brink of being the first country in world history to burn up its food supply to satisfy a political agenda. At least the Romans were more forthright in their day. They simply salted the fields.

High food prices affect the poor mostly. As they see the percentage of their already meager food budget increase to the point it is affecting their ability to supply the other necessities to their families they will become increasingly discontent.

When your legislators have their open houses in your area, you need to get in there and tell them what they are doing and how it is affecting the economy at large -- especially the food supply. Make them understand that they do not want to be on the receiving end of the enmity of a starving people.

It -- won't -- be -- pretty.
 
Of course, none of this would be happening if ethanol wasn't used for fuel, right?

Gasoline and diesel fuel prices are still a major arbiter in the price of food.
 
Farmers are switching to corn crops for the ethanol subsidies and the results of that shoe are yet to drop.
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So, the farmers aren't just using the fields that the gov't pays them to let go fallow?
 
Define, please. Did the part about "If every aerable acre of land in the entire United States were to be planted with corn; and every ear grown turned into ethanol, the offset of foreign oil would be a mere 17%." get past you?
 
ahh, you have discovered my other hobby. I consider this one to be even more misunderstood then guns. I have been making ethanol for about 4 years. Nothing is easier or cheaper.

I don’t brew all the time, and I have a few methods and a few stills. one of which is a converted pressure cooker. I feed it old doughnuts that Krispy Kreme gives away at night. I have made 55 gallon barrels of mash out of the stuff on occasion.

The pressure cooker cost me $10 at a garage sale, the copper pipe was some what expensive though. Doughnuts did not cost me anything, and I can use wood, gas or electric to run my still depending on weather and how lazy I am feeling.

Did I mention I have a solar powered still? How much do you think that cost to run?

most of what you will read about ethanol is lies, but it does have some down sides. Ethanol is hard to start in cold weather, but it can be done with mods to the gas tank. also you will get worse gas mileage in your car by something like 2 miles to the gallon. ( don’t quote me one that one)

another interesting fact, allot of cars are already E85 approved, meaning they will run on high levels of alcohol to gas ratios.
 
Cars originally ran on wood alcohol "back in the day" as they say. Gasoline came along later. It was considered a waste product until the internal combustion engine came along.

The manuufactures of ethanol are not, as you are, using solar to make ethanol. On the level that you are making your ethanol, solar is a viable and effective means.

I have an entire book on ethanol conversion, including the modifications of the jets in the carburetor to a larger size. The number of BTUs that can be gleaned from ethanol, as well as the higher useage due to jetting modifications, makes ethanol on a national scale unviable.

Ethanol is also hygroscopic and causes engine damage from water even though you do gain from the inability of ethanol to dilute petroleum products such as lubricating oil. Yes, you can cite Brazil but the gains in the ethanol program there has been offset by the higher costs involved in maintenance, etc.

You can also cite higher energy prices for the processing and delivery of food but that is not the sole event driving the cost of food increasing and how higher costs on goods lag increased costs of energy. I don't disagree. However, the current increase in foods dependent on corn far outstrip the increases in energy costs. If it costs more to feed the cows it costs more to buy the milk.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282878,00.html

Energy prices climbed for a fourth straight month in May, rising 5.4 percent after a 2.4 percent April pickup. Gasoline prices soared 10.5 percent in May, more than twice the 4.7 percent increase posted in April.

Food prices were up 0.3 percent last month following a 0.4 percent gain in April. Food prices have risen at a 6.2 percent annual rate so far in 2007, nearly three times the 2.1 percent increase for all of 2006.
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Define, please. Did the part about "If every aerable acre of land in the entire United States were to be planted with corn; and every ear grown turned into ethanol, the offset of foreign oil would be a mere 17%." get past you?
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Nope. But that is a future event. You are arguing that current prices are due to the ethanol trend.
 
No the Toyota is FI (22RE inline 4), but the manuals indicate (IIRC) 15% or less alcohol content in the fuel only. At the time, blended fuels where I lived were 10% alcohol max so it was fine.

The van is a 2004 Chrysler Town & Country, so it is fine with E85.

I'm sure the Toyota can be fitted with alternative injectors, and I'd have to get the computer firmware updated and a few other things done for a full conversion.

I just don't have the $$$ to do something like that right now.
 
hmm going to have to disagree, ethanol is better for you car, it burns at a lower temp then gas. ethanol will clean your engine by breaking up the carbon deposits left from using gas. the only place that can be bad if it breaks up so much as to clog a filter.


never herd of hygroscopic...I think you mean hydrophilic, as ethanol absorbs water.

racing fuel is mostly ethanol...unless its methanol.
 
There is an interesting forum on ethanol vs biodeisel vs gasoline HERE

An example:
David Pimentel, an agricultural scientist at Cornell University and one of the foremost critics of ethanol, has conducted numerous cost analyses on ethanol production. He's made a name for himself mostly by driving the ethanol industry raving mad. From its very beginnings, when hoe enters soil, ethanol production has not changed much since the nineteenth century. Pimentel found that one acre of U.S. corn field yields about 7,110 pounds of corn, which in turn produces 328 gallons of ethanol. Setting aside the environmental implications (which are substantial), the financial costs already begin to mount. To plant, grow, and harvest the corn takes about 140 gallons of fossil fuel and costs about $347 per acre. According to Pimentel's analysis, even before the corn is converted to ethanol, the feedstock alone costs $0.69 per gallon of ethanol.

More damning, however, is that converting corn to ethanol requires about 99,119 BTUs to make one gallon, which has 77,000 BTUs of available energy. So about 29 percent more energy is required to produce a gallon of ethanol than is stored in that gallon in the first place. "That helps explain why fossil fuels (not ethanol) are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies that artificially lower the price." All told, a gallon of ethanol costs $2.24 to produce, compared to $0.63 for a gallon of gasoline.
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The link to this seems to have expired but a search on keywords in the article should produce results.
 
Corn Ethanol is a dead end that leads nowhere. It takes as much energy to make it as you get out of it. Ethanol from Sugar Cane is a good idea and they use it in Brazil to great effect.

Using Corn Ethanol is worse than doing nothing. It wastes even more resources and negatively affects many areas of the economy.
 
corn is not the best thing to make ehtanol out of, its true. but there is no reason not to make ethanol out of it if you have extra corn. in America I would sugest the use of sugar beets to make ethanol, but then I would also sugest each person makes their own energy so they dont have to pay for energy.
 
never herd of hygroscopic...I think you mean hydrophilic, as ethanol absorbs water.
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Its a fairly new term that's only been around since 1765. :p

hy·gro·scop·ic
[hahy-gruh-skop-ik]
–adj absorbing or attracting moisture from the air.

[Origin: 1765–75; hygroscope + -ic]

Most people will pronounce it "hydroscopic" but that is a very different term entirely.

Hydrophilic has to do with the ability of a substance to readily mix with water. Kool-Aid is hydrophilic.

American Heritage Dictionary -
hy·dro·phil·ic
adj. Having an affinity for water; readily absorbing or dissolving in water.
 
huh hygroscopic eh? rather then blaming my self, I would like to blame my science teacher, this way its not my fault see?...well we agreed on the same thing, ethanol absorbs water
 
"The cost of fuel didn't go up $1.18 in the last week."

No, no it didn't. Because consumer prices have NEVER tracked rises and falls to a SINGLE element of the economy.

That's a very narrow, very black and white, and very wrong, way of looking at it.

Gas/oil prices have a cumulative effect across the whole of the economy, NOT a "Hey, the price of oil just jumped $1.18, raise the price of milk $1.18!"


There's an on-going drough in parts of the country.

Stop to think about how that might be affecting milk prices?

Back in the 1990s IIRC there was a very very nasty drough in the mid west. Prices for a number of commodities went up a helling, and none of it was because of the price of gas OR a supposed shortage of corn because all of it was being converted to alcohol.
 
"If every aerable acre of land in the entire United States were to be planted with corn; and every ear grown turned into ethanol, the offset of foreign oil would be a mere 17%."

Yeah, I gotta wonder about that.

The only thing that got past me about that statement was the attributable source that also provides economic studies for the claim.
 
about any organic waste can be converted into ethanol. sugar cane has a high yield, while grass clippings and old new papers have a low yield. its about sugar content.

think about how much food is wasted in the US, and how it could be converted into Ethanol. I think on our waste alone we could get that %17
 
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