Wild conspiracy theory concerning Russian Sub
- Thread starter Jack 99
- Start date
DOCSpanky,
I agree. Sad that thier own gubmint seems to have written them off.
The point of the lack of asking for international help is just that they haven't asked. Maybe we could do some good, maybe we can't, but we won't do anything without an invite. And I've got $1,000 that says we've developed a method of retrieving Soviet subs. I'm sure its super-top secret, but no way we don't have the equipment.
"She doth protest too much." Any of you ex-military super-spooks know that the correct answer to being asked about nukes is "I can neither confirm nor deny." You would NEVER say "no, we ain't got no nukes."
I still think this would be a good way to put some nukes away for a rainy day to get around arms treaties. We know the Russky's are ticked about the latest Missile Defense Shield proposals and it looks like Bush will support those.
Something smells rotten, boys.
[This message has been edited by Jack 99 (edited August 15, 2000).]
I agree. Sad that thier own gubmint seems to have written them off.
The point of the lack of asking for international help is just that they haven't asked. Maybe we could do some good, maybe we can't, but we won't do anything without an invite. And I've got $1,000 that says we've developed a method of retrieving Soviet subs. I'm sure its super-top secret, but no way we don't have the equipment.
"She doth protest too much." Any of you ex-military super-spooks know that the correct answer to being asked about nukes is "I can neither confirm nor deny." You would NEVER say "no, we ain't got no nukes."
I still think this would be a good way to put some nukes away for a rainy day to get around arms treaties. We know the Russky's are ticked about the latest Missile Defense Shield proposals and it looks like Bush will support those.
Something smells rotten, boys.
[This message has been edited by Jack 99 (edited August 15, 2000).]
I work with a fellow here who did several tours of duty on US subs in the 70's. His comment was "we never left port unarmed." His take was that the comment that the sub is unarmed is just standard Russian government propaganda. We (US) would probably say the same thing if it was ours.
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Basenji <><
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Basenji <><
John Forsyth
New member
Worked at Newport News Shipbuilding a while back. While I have never served on a 688, I have been around them. The soviets build their subs very strongly, as do we. There are ways for equipment to fail in a colission (spelling?) other than the pressure shell to be comprimised and the boat to go down.
Was the boat armed? Quite sure it was and still is.
The sailors on that boat have two chances at survival, slim and none. Say a prayer for those men. I can think of lot better ways to go out than in a cold steel hull on the bottom of the ocean.
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John
Was the boat armed? Quite sure it was and still is.
The sailors on that boat have two chances at survival, slim and none. Say a prayer for those men. I can think of lot better ways to go out than in a cold steel hull on the bottom of the ocean.
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John
Apple a Day
New member
Satanta,
It wouldn't be nearly the first time a U.S. and a Russian sub had bumped. A old friend of mine was on a sub (I think it was the U.S.S. Memphis but it's been several years) that managed to collide with her while she was clearing her baffles. Tower was crumpled and she couldn't make way without cavitating. They had no choice but to turn around and go home. The Russian sub rattled off the other direction. There's no telling if the Russian sub made it home or not.
I was thinking of all of the recent bombings in Russian lately by angry Chechnyans (I have no idea how to spell it). I was thinking that maybe someone managed to sabotage a torpedo but since no one has claimed responsibility the chances of my theory dwindle.
In the meantime I will say a prayer for those submariners in the OscarII and all of those listed as 'still on patrol'.
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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
It wouldn't be nearly the first time a U.S. and a Russian sub had bumped. A old friend of mine was on a sub (I think it was the U.S.S. Memphis but it's been several years) that managed to collide with her while she was clearing her baffles. Tower was crumpled and she couldn't make way without cavitating. They had no choice but to turn around and go home. The Russian sub rattled off the other direction. There's no telling if the Russian sub made it home or not.
I was thinking of all of the recent bombings in Russian lately by angry Chechnyans (I have no idea how to spell it). I was thinking that maybe someone managed to sabotage a torpedo but since no one has claimed responsibility the chances of my theory dwindle.
In the meantime I will say a prayer for those submariners in the OscarII and all of those listed as 'still on patrol'.
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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Steve Smith
New member
Anyone know how cold the water is at the bottom of the North Sea? If their reactors are really off then they're bound to be getting very, very cold.
Update- The water temp near the western Swedish shore (and presumably near the top of the water) was 62 degrees today. That gives us an idea, at lest...deduct 10 more degrees for moving around to the cold side of the penninsula, then drop 400 feet. I'd bet it's pretty cold.
[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited August 15, 2000).]
Update- The water temp near the western Swedish shore (and presumably near the top of the water) was 62 degrees today. That gives us an idea, at lest...deduct 10 more degrees for moving around to the cold side of the penninsula, then drop 400 feet. I'd bet it's pretty cold.
[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited August 15, 2000).]
I'd guess the water temperature is a nice, frosty, 39 degrees F, the point at which water is its densest. Cold in other words.
It has been theorized that the U.S.S. Scorpion went down because a defective torpedo armed and exploded inside the tube. It's hardly impossible that a torpedo somehow exploded inside the tube, particularly given the notoriously poor maintenance in the Russian armed forces.
It has been theorized that the U.S.S. Scorpion went down because a defective torpedo armed and exploded inside the tube. It's hardly impossible that a torpedo somehow exploded inside the tube, particularly given the notoriously poor maintenance in the Russian armed forces.
Yeah, its cold down there and more and more its sounding like a torp cooked off in the tube, which would open at least one compartment to the sea, and probably compromise one or more ballast or trim tanks.
As to this being a conspiracy/plot...ah, no. I can't see any possible gain for the Russians that would offset the loss of an EXTREMELY valuable capital ship (the Kursk is one of the newer Oscar IIs, also), besides POSSIBLY setting aside some nukes for a rainy day. Even that theory has problems, too. Why publicize the event if thats the case? why let the whole world know where it happened? If I was wanting to load up a sub with nukes to 'store' them, I'd load up an older boat, send it out on routine patrol, and have it show up overdue...then declare it lost. I'd not make a scene like this.
Occam's Razor: a torpedo cooked off in the tube, and now the time is running out for those boys.
What I want know is why Russia has waited so long to ask for help. Pride? Arrogance?
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
As to this being a conspiracy/plot...ah, no. I can't see any possible gain for the Russians that would offset the loss of an EXTREMELY valuable capital ship (the Kursk is one of the newer Oscar IIs, also), besides POSSIBLY setting aside some nukes for a rainy day. Even that theory has problems, too. Why publicize the event if thats the case? why let the whole world know where it happened? If I was wanting to load up a sub with nukes to 'store' them, I'd load up an older boat, send it out on routine patrol, and have it show up overdue...then declare it lost. I'd not make a scene like this.
Occam's Razor: a torpedo cooked off in the tube, and now the time is running out for those boys.
What I want know is why Russia has waited so long to ask for help. Pride? Arrogance?
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
A Russian joke about nuclear subs:
"Does being cooped up in a submarine with a nuclear reactor cause reproductive damage to the crew mambers?"
"No. After all, the submariners' often stay submerged for years at a time and yet their wives are giving birth to perfectly healthy babies."
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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
"Does being cooped up in a submarine with a nuclear reactor cause reproductive damage to the crew mambers?"
"No. After all, the submariners' often stay submerged for years at a time and yet their wives are giving birth to perfectly healthy babies."
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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk
http://dd-b.net/RKBA
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