"Why you should oppose instant background checks"

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here in Va you have to do the same thing jersey is doing. you have to a) go to the police station of the county you are purchasing the gun. they run you through NCIC,VCIN, and whatever local crime computer they have, give them a reason, pay the $10-$20 depending on locale.
b) go purchase your gun in which there they run you through NCIC,VCIN and local computer
c) go to clerks office, fill out paperwork, pay $50 for a 5 year permit, go to police station, get finger printed then wait 45 days. this all has to be done during business hours. on monday i took an hour of of work to get the permit, tuesday i took an hour off of work to apply for my CWP. how about that?

everyone is right, once this is done, the gov't has a nice profile on you and where you live and what you own. i am a 22 yr old who abides by the law except for your typical speeding tickets or what have you. i am a white collar worker who will still be hassled by the police or other officials. i do not draw attention to myself, it seems to follow me. therefore i have no choice than to follow the law. i have a HUGE problem with gun registration. ask the jews how it felt when the gov't came first for their guns, then for them. i would have rather not registered it but i can't really afford to conceal and carry without a permit in case i am stopped or harrased. it seems the "older" generation, thinks ALL younger kids are punks regardless. its the 'ol a few bad apples spoil the bunch mentality.

anyways, i bought my first handgun on monday and am very very glad i did. i live in a good area but if there is a 1 in a billion chance i could lose my life to someone with a gun, then thats reason enough for me to conceal and carry to protect myself. i hope i never ever have to even pull it from the holster to point at someone let alone pull the trigger and take another humans life. i will if necessary though.

my dad just got his CWP and a little 9mm and my mom hates it. he says and i quote "you won't mind when it saves your life one day" nuff said.

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Van
Glock 36
 
Paul Revere, the way I see it, we're faced with giving up one set of freedoms or another. I agree that if I didn't have the gun magazines on the backseat of the car, I would not have been searched. But that means I do not have the freedom to buy a periodical and leave it in my car -- I would have to hide it in order not to draw attention to myself.

What about if I'm in a bookstore or a supermarket and I want to flip through a gun magazine because I'm interested in seeing what new products are out there. Do I need to worry that a LEO might be around and looking at the magazine will draw attention to myself and thus give him cause to search me.

Constantly looking over my shoulder to make sure that I do not draw attention to myself because I'm illegally carrying a concealed firearm is no way to live -- having a CWL is easier & safer because even if you don't draw attention to yourself. At the risk of getting too far off track, let me share the following story that happened in 1997 ...

The particular division that I work for was having a "Division Day" where the morning was devoted to presentations of what the organization has accomplished and what our future goals were and the afternoon consisted of free food and fun activities in the park.

During the entire morining I sat next to my district manager. When all of left for the park, we watched as a string of police cars followed that district manager's car into the parking lot and with guns drawn, rushed the car and proceeded to hnadcuff him. It turned out that mid-morning, a man matching his description and driving a similar type of car had robbed a nearby gas station at gun point and everybody was out looking for him.

Fortunately, for my district manager, he had a couple of dozen people (including myself) who could vouch for him that at the time of the robbery, we were sitting right next to him.

However, even though he got out of the mistaken identify pproblem, had he been illegally armed, he would have been looking at jail time in New Jersey. The point being, that you can not draw any attention to yourself and be at the wrong place in the wrong time and if you are discovered to be carrying illegally, your whole life can go down the drain.

I don't like having to be licensed but the alternative of being caught with an illegal gun is worse -- constantly looking over your shoulder and living in fear that you might do something to draw attention to yourself or be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
serfur1, this older generation (me) is not meaning to brow beat the younger generation, nor anyone else, but simply trying to pass on and share hard won information. I have fairly good hindsight and can see I let your generation down by not preserving your Rights. I did not properly realize a nip here and there on our Rights would balloon into an all out assault on all of our Rights and total destruction of this constitutional Republic. Also, I can tell you who is our enemy and what to do about it. Are you listening? The enemy are those in elected office enacting unconstitutional legislation and the peaceful way to straighten the mess out is to vote third party.

FUD, I believe you are not going to get it. It is not so much about you but concerns every citizen. It seems you agree with unconstitutional laws as licenses on our Rights. It is against the Law to legislate changes in the Constitution or its meaning. So, if you agree with gun control laws then you do not believe in America the Republic, but the unconstitutional goons destroying the Constitution and our freedom. If we, the people, do not stand together and force the elected to obey their oath of office then America the Republic is no more on the face of this earth.
 
Allan, I believe that if I am arrested for carrying an illegal firearm, I will be sent to jail. My young children will not have their father around for a few years. My family will have to sell our home (at a loss) and move into a cheaper and (maybe) more dangerous part of town putting them more at risk to violent crime because there will only be one bread winner in the home instead of two. Instead of be raised by two caring parents (who work split shifts so that a family member is always with the children), they will now be raised (at least part of the time when my wife is at work) by a stranger. When I get out of jail, I will be barred from owning a firearm -- thereby limiting my ability to defend my family as I get older & weaker and our society grows more violent.

AND ... this is the ironic part -- the part that really gets me ... none of these hardships/loses will make one bit of difference on our right to keep and bare arms. If every member of TFL was arrested for carrying an illegal firearms -- it still wouldn't make one bit of difference! Of course, if every handgun owner would join the NRA, then that would send a message to our elected officials. I've been a member for nearly two decades. There are people at the ranges who shoot more frequently than I do and have never been members and have no intention of joining.

You're right. We need to stand together -- For far too long the few have had to carry the many!

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited May 17, 2000).]
 
FUD...

Fear; 1. A feeling of alarm or disquiet caused by the expectation of danger, pain, disaster, or the like; terror; dread; apprehension. 2. An instance or manifestation of such a feeling. 3. A state or condition of alarm or dread. 4. Extreme reverence or awe, as towards a supreme power.

Does this sound like something that a free man living in the United States of America should feel about his government? If your answer is "no", than you should take a chill pill.

If we walk around life fearing that we'll be struck down by lightning, we mount a lightning rod to our hat and wear rubber boots. If we fear that the airplanes we fly will crash into a firey ball, we take the bus. If we fear of getting into a fatal car crash because of driving at high speeds, we lower our speed. If we fear the dark at night, we leave a light on. If we fear that we could become victims of a senseless crime, we arm ourselves. If we fear that by arming ourselves we will be arrested and jailed, we leave the gun at home. Yin and Yang.

Do as you must, but never tell me you're a free man, living in a free country, so long as you fear your government (beit local, state, or federal).

Allan is only partially correct. Our elected officials who are ignoring their oaths of office are simply agents of tyranny, not necessarily the heads of that tyranny. Most are simply submitting to an agenda to which they may believe beneficial to the common man. Most do not realize that their actions are motivated by evil men, seeking evil ends. Their actions are but the means to that end.

FUD, if you gave me ten more examples of why free men should not act as free men, I'll give you twenty reasons why you should defy those self-imposed fears of yours. Analize your fears, and I'll bet somewhere in there a free man will be just waiting to get out.

Never has there been a better time to be armed against all enemies, foreign and domestic, than right now. You and I and our many friends are all a part of the solution. Don't become enslaved by your fears, because that is what our enemies are already doing to the whole of America. Stand strong for freedom, or stand down. The choice is yours...just don't get caught up in the heavily manipulated message being sent by an enemy that fears an armed populace. They fear us remember. If they didn't, why on Earth would they ever want to take away your arms?

BTW, my offer still stands. And still no one has provided an example of a single innocent man jailed by what drives your fear.
 
Paul, I carry a firearm along with a CWL and there is no fear on my part that I'm breaking the law. Carrying without a CWL, would bring about the "fears" that you talk about.

You, on the other hand have a fear that by getting a CWL, we are giving away our rights. We all due respect, a lot of those rights are already gone. Getting back to the original topic of this post in that we should oppose instant background checks ... trying buying a new firearm without an instant background check -- no FFL will sell you one. Try buying a new hi-cap mag (not the pre-ban stuff but new ones) and you're out of luck because there are laws against it.

Carrying a firearm without a CWL is breaking th law unless you live in a state that allows it. Breaking th law is a crime. If we don't like a law, then we need to ban together and change the laws. If the NRA had 80,000,000 members, the gun laws in this country would be different. There is strenth in numbers.

Paul, I believe that you and I (and most on this board) have similar views and beliefs -- you just may have a more positive outlook than I do. Last week-end, I saw the NICS shut itself down for a few days and gun sales across the country were blocked. Two months ago, I saw my Sheriff (who I didn't vote for) call for a county wide ban on assault rifles and receive wide-spread support.

I guess that I do not have as much hope in fighting against the system as you do. I think that our first goal is not to lose any more ground before we try to regain the ground that we already lost. The fact that the NRA had a 200,000 jump in members due to the MMM is a good start.
 
"If the NRA had 80,000,000 members, the gun laws in this country would be different."

How so?

I would suggest that too many of us simply join the NRA, pay our self-defense taxes, get our government permission to carry or own or buy, and go about our business. I understand people's reasons for doing so--they're very pragmatic ones...can't do much good in jail. OK, fair enough. But where does the infringement stop? It doesn't.

If that's all we do--join various organizations, get our CCW's--then what we're really doing is contributing to the problem. Helping to sell our kids down the river. The longer we let this stuff take root--goin on almost half a century since '68, even longer since '34--the harder it will be to root it out. It's easier to defend a position than to have to retake it later. Well, now we're in the position of having to retake it.

Imagine that, from '68 til now, a scant 32 years and so much has changed. Imagine how much worse it will be 32 years from now if we don't change it soon. My youngest will be the same age I am now by then. I don't want him to have to look at me and ask me why I didn't do something about it.

We have to do more than we're doing. At best, joining an organization, no matter how good, is the equivalent of putting one sock on in the morning. It's barely even a start.
 
Paul Revere, I understand very well the controllers are not the elected but we have no power over the controllers and we do over the elected who are bowing to the controllers.

Chris in AL, excellent post, thanks. It is ridiculous for citizens to hire lobbyist when they, citizens, have the vote.

Vote third party come November.
 
Allan...

We do have the ability to sever the brains of this agenda. They are not beyond our grasp. There's no time for your method, the fix is already in. As much as I agree with your third party stance, the "controllers" have already picked their candidate. The election process is no longer in the hands of the people.

You are living in a dream world if you believe there's still hope to turn this thing around playing by the rules. Forget it. If you believe we the people still are in charge, take a look at what happened this week on Wall Street. Its got Federal Reserve manipulation (central bankers) written all over it. In the end, they reduce our standards of living while piling more national debt into an ever overflowing pot of bankruptcy. We lose no matter what we do. The Fed is beyond the reach of our elected ones.

FUD...

What I fear the most is; the fact that so many of you are playing arm-chair politics, completely blinded by the realities of what stands behind this vicious agenda, sitting in disbelief with blinders on, focusing on the wrong targets, while the true targets go untouched by your thoughts or your actions.

It is a consequence of ignorance. Someone shows you the way, opens the door, and says, "go ahead, look inside, those are the ones that require your undivided attention", and you ignore it. You continue to look for the obvious answers only six inches from the end of your noses. By looking deeper, beyond the rhetorical puke of the system, you will find what stands behind this agenda. And when you realize that the straw that will cause this camel's back to come crashing down is just outside your current perspective, you will reach for it. Find out what we're up against, pass the information around. An educated populace is the agenda's controllers worst nightmare.

And lastly...unConstitutional laws are unenforceable, null and void, and DO NOT APPLY to American citizens so long as their elected sissies continue to take an oath to office. "I swear to Protect, preserve, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, so help me God." If you agree that this means nothing these days, then we are really in some deep doodoo aren't we? Not really, only if you allow the constant usurpation and corruption to control your life.

I DON'T!
 
Paul, I want the same thing that you want ... the right to keep bare arms but you seem to be saying two different things. You mention to Allan that we no longer have control over the election process and then you tell me that unconstitutional laws are unenforceable because our elected officials take an oath to up hold the constitution.

We have lost control of our government -- there are departments, agencies and there are rules, laws & regulations with regard to everything. And it isn't just with firearms but with everything. How do you suggest that we bring things under control? I'm all ears.

I'm an active member of the NRA contributing as much as I can. I write letters to my elected officials with regard to matters that I disagree with. I attend peaceful pro-gun meetings & rallies. What else do you recommed?

Finally, with regard to that one example that you keep asking for, this is the cloest that I can personally get ... a high school buddy of mine got pulled over for drunk driving. As he was getting out of the car, a butcher knife fell out of his boot. He was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. He managed to get out of going to jail but the state of New Jersey will not issue him a Purchase Permit to buy a firearm. He has applied a couple of times and it came back: "denied - criminal record". No gun store will sell him a firearm without a state issued Purchase Permit.

Maybe it's for this reason that I have a CWL and do not carry a firearm illegally.
 
FUD...

The problems we face are much more complex than any public forum is equipped to handle. And as much as I'd love to describe what I see an efficiently effective course of action, I will remain silent. I continue to hope that readers will read between the lines of my posts. That's just my optimism.

Everyone wants proof of a vast conspiracy. Some just flatly deny it. They expect somehow to turn on the news and have someone explain it to them, or show them photos, but its really not that simple. Everything in life has its price. And for you to grasp the concept that will answer your questions and settle your fears, you'll have to do some major homework. It will become utterly obvious what needs to be done once you've done that research, and only then.

You'll then see why what I fear most is; ignorance amongst gunowners.
 
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