Why you can never be too careful

[Lima Oscar 7]

By this sort of feeble definition, everybody in acting is a hypocrite or likely will be. There are Christian actors that play Muslims, men and women involved in rape scenes that do not support rape at all, actors that play the roles of murders, bank robbers, and child molesters without every being supporters of those things. There are gay men that play straight men and straight men that play gay men.

It is called "acting" for a reason.

There are a lot of people I disagree with in politics and entertainment but I do not wish i’ll fates for them. If do pray that in certain cases, their efforts will fail but I don’t hate them. I will stand my ground and respectfully counter their narratives. I won’t stoop to their level. Mr. Baldwin is one of those people. I choose not to support Hollywood with my dollars out of conviction and since I wound rather be in the woods than hypnotized by Hollywood. It would be great if we could live by the axioms I was raised in part upon, do your job, take care of your business, take care of your animals and let don’t worry about what others are doing. Mr. Baldwin set himself up for this lambasting by second amendment purveyors. Average folks want to be entertained by entertainers. They don’t want to be preached to by self-righteous zealots. My fear is this will result in an even more maniacal push to limit our freedoms since it hits home in the epicenter of wokeism.

 

[SIGSHR]

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data-it prejudices the judgement."
Sherlock Holmes to Dr. Watson in The Sign of the Four.

 

[HiBC]

News articles posted are saying the Union folks ,including the normal armorer,walked off the set due to some form of unsafe working conditions.

There was also a suggestion that this "misfire" was not the first that occurred on set.

It was also alleged that the "Armorer of the day" was new to the job and was there because the Union Armorer was one of the folks who walked off.

I did not copy a link and run to post it here...like most news today the article was about like this post ......"an unidentified source said" It wasn't something that could easily be checked out.

Either the state or fed version of OSHA has moved in.

I expect the script for the story is being written right now for maximum tail coverage and minimal embarrassment for VIP's.

Back in the days of the Western as the mainstay of TV and Movies, I do not recall hearing of people being shot on set, and near every film had at least one gunfight.

The knowledge and procedures were probably in place filming Hopalong Cassidy. The Lone Ranger, Stagecoach, etc..

Its not like OSHA or the California Legislature needs to write a new code.

What needs to happen is "No Cover Up" and folks being held acountable for disregading established codes of safety.

Violations of old policy are not a reason to create new policy,as if a lack of having policy was the problem.

 

[Lima Oscar 7]

Only commoners are held accountable.

 

[Prof Young]

Not sure all stage and screen armorers are qualified.

Having spent most of my adult life creating college level theatre I've had occasion to go to workshops on stage combat and firearms use. In one notable workshop the, supposedly qualified, instructor immediately put his finger on the trigger of every gun he handled. Turns out he was not a gun owner, shooter or hunter. Just passing on what he'd learned about firearms use on stage from those who went before him. Hmmmm . . . .

Prof Young

 

[cjwils]

Since Brandon Lee has been mentioned, I think you might want to read what Wikipedia says about his death. This is the best summary I have seen online.

"On March 31, 1993, Lee was filming a scene in The Crow where his character is shot and killed by thugs.[97] In the scene, Lee's character walks into his apartment and discovers his fiancée being beaten and raped, and a thug played by actor Michael Massee fires a Smith & Wesson Model 629 .44 Magnum revolver at Lee's character as he walks into the room.[98]

"In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the prop gun (which was a real revolver) was loaded with improperly-made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck — a dangerous condition known as a squib load. During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.[99][100]"

 

[44 AMP]

well the net is aflame with things today, and more "information" is coming out, though still nothing OFFICIAL.

Among things I read this morning are
There were two (2) accidental "discharges" of "prop guns" in the week prior to the shooting.

The gun was handed to Baldwin by an associate producer (not the prop guy) and who told Baldwin "cold gun".

The woman was shot in the stomach

The woman was shot in the chest, and the guy was standing behind her, was wounded in the shoulder.

The scene to be filmed involved Baldwin shooting someone

This happened on the set but not during filming

Working conditions and safety was so bad union people walked off the set.

The production company refused to spend a nickel it didn't have to on safety
and so on, and so on....

Some of this might be true, some might not be...again, nothing official, YET.

One thing that does bug me, a personal thing, but since I am so firearm detail oriented, I cannot understand why they have not yet said what the gun was. I do not understand WHY they are withholding this information.

If it had been a car accident, the make and model of the car would be known and already released. This is not something it takes an investigation to discover. I can see not stating what was actually fired, yet, that would require an investigation, to determine for certain what it was, live round, or something else like the tragic combination of factors involved in the Brandon Lee shooting. But not stating what the gun was, just seems foolish, to me. I mean, its not as if they don't KNOW, right??

oh well, more "theatre" as time goes on, I'm sure. CYA is in full bloom here as well...

 

[DaleA]

One thing that does bug me, a personal thing, but since I am so firearm detail oriented, I cannot understand why they have not yet said what the gun was. I do not understand WHY they are withholding this information.

Post #2 from HiBC explains so much that we see in the "news".

I notice news media folks often use terminology that perhaps virtue signals them as "proudly gun ignorant" to their peers.

Note: I am the one that bolded "proudly gun ignorant", not HiBC.

I think that it is a phrase that really hits the nail on the head.

 

[101combatvet]

I was once asked to be the gun guy for a film. Often filmmakers throw in a firearm to have that anti-gun message in their movie. I reviewed the screenplay and declined after seeing that the firearm was going to be the bad guy.

Baldwin might be one of the biggest jerk-offs in Hollywood; I hope he gets slammed for this stunt.

 

[Rob228]

Often filmmakers throw in a firearm to have that anti-gun message in their movie. I reviewed the screenplay and declined after seeing that the firearm was going to be the bad guy.

I just recently re-watched the entire Lethal Weapon series and the not so subtle messaging in all of them never jumped out at me when I watched them as a kid in the 90s. Its either 2 or 3 where there are posters up all around the police station that say "Know Your Enemy, the NRA" etc. BUT I think with such great lines as "nailed em, both" I tend to look past it.

Even though a new headline seems to be popping up every few hours about this Baldwin incident, there really isn't any new information coming out. With him being a producer I feel like he's got the money and legal team to keep a tight lid on everything for now.

If you search for it, there is actually a video from the filming of Bad Boys where an armorer is showing Will Smith the prop guns, and someone grabs one and points it at him. Will snatches it out of the guys hand, clears it then hands it back while making a comment about "horrible gun safety".

 

[ATN082268]

The vast majority of Hollywood are liberals, so the mainstream media and social media will normally cover their mishaps.

 

[JohnKSa]

Some new information.

The original armorer was Thell Reed's daughter.

It is unclear if she was the armorer on set when the incident happened or if she was part of the walkoff and the armorer on set for the incident was a replacement. The sheriff says that there was an armorer on set at the time of the incident.

The person who handed the gun to Baldwin and said "Cold gun" was the assistant director according to an affidavit.

Whoever was the armorer on the scene at the time of the incident bears responsibility for the incident--the only exception I could see would be if someone managed to sneak a gun and live ammo onto the set and get it to the assistant director

 

[Lima Oscar 7]

I just recently re-watched the entire Lethal Weapon series and the not so subtle messaging in all of them never jumped out at me when I watched them as a kid in the 90s. Its either 2 or 3 where there are posters up all around the police station that say "Know Your Enemy, the NRA" etc. BUT I think with such great lines as "nailed em, both" I tend to look past it.

Even though a new headline seems to be popping up every few hours about this Baldwin incident, there really isn't any new information coming out. With him being a producer I feel like he's got the money and legal team to keep a tight lid on everything for now.

If you search for it, there is actually a video from the filming of Bad Boys where an armorer is showing Will Smith the prop guns, and someone grabs one and points it at him. Will snatches it out of the guys hand, clears it then hands it back while making a comment about "horrible gun safety".

I do my best not to support Hollywood.

 

[44 AMP]

Whoever was the armorer on the scene at the time of the incident bears responsibility for the incident-

agreed, ALONG WITH the person holding the gun!!
A huge percentage, if not the majority of firearms accidents happen with what is believed to be an "unloaded" gun.

Baldwin has a reputation for being an arrogant person and not listening to anyone he doesn't choose to, but that does not absolve him of the responsibility that EVERY PERSON has when they have a gun in their hands.

Its one of the very basic and first rules of gun safety, no matter what anyone SAYS, the gun is always loaded until you, personally verify otherwise.

One of the internet "reports" I read said he was instructed in gun safety, but apparently chose to ignore it. Some folks are like that, they know better than everyone else, even in areas where they have little or no training.

I'm sure that contributed to the accident in some degree.

We'll see what the next batch of blurbs has for us, I've still got plenty of popcorn to munch waiting for some official facts to be released.

 

[JohnKSa]

...ALONG WITH the person holding the gun!!

Not in this case.

An actor isn't even responsible to know the gun safety rules. That's not their job. In fact, even if they do know the gun safety rules, their job often requires them to break those rules.

There's a paid professional on the scene precisely to ensure safety in a situation where people who are not required to know anything about guns or gun safety will be handling firearms and will be doing things with them that would normally be considered extremely dangerous.

The armorer is responsible to ensure that things like this can't happen and is operating in an environment where the expectation is that no one else knows anything about gun safety. Short of intentional sabotage, or guns/ammo brought in surreptitiously by a third party, the armorer is responsible for anything that goes wrong with guns on the set. ANYTHING.

 

[gbclarkson]

The vast majority of Hollywood are liberals, so the mainstream media and social media will normally cover their mishaps.

Were you there? How are the Hollywood liberals and mainstream media and social media conspiring to withhold and/or convolute information to facilitate a "cover-up"? What do you know that no one else does?

 

[ATN082268]

Were you there? How are the Hollywood liberals and mainstream media and social media conspiring to withhold and/or convolute information to facilitate a "cover-up"? What do you know that no one else does?

Whether I was there or not isn't relevant. This mishap will likely get more favorable coverage than if a rare conservative Hollywood actor was in a similar situation. If you think the mainstream media is objective or has a generally conservative bias, party on

 

[gbclarkson]

This mishap will likely get more favorable coverage than if a rare conservative Hollywood actor was in a similar situation.

Again, without verification my brain discards claim as conspiratorial nonsense; a way for you to satisfy your right-leaning need to blame the libs. Do you have an example of a conservative actor in a similar situation treated differently than Baldwin is being treated now? We have a limited data set to work with here. Anyone know Brandon Lee's and Jon Eric-Hexum's voting history? By the way, CNN has not officially exonerated Baldwin yet and Fox News' current headline is focusing on the armorer. (Totally, completely, unrelated factoid: Jon Eric-Hexum's accident occurred on the set of CBS's "Cover Up".)

My brain trends towards the most likely. This tragedy, like many, is the culminating result of many failures occurring simultaneously - a low budget that excluded safety, poor training, limited firearms experience, poor oversight, unqualified safety monitors, poor communication. The conflicting information reported by different media outlets is, again - most likely, the real-world application of the elementary school telephone game.

How about we disassociate our attitudes and biases and re-focus this thread where it needs to be: safety. Standard practice safety protocols were not observed and a fatal accident happened. I trust the investigating police to divy the blame accordingly.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

This mishap will likely get more favorable coverage than if a rare conservative Hollywood actor was in a similar situation.

Again, without verification my brain discards claim as conspiratorial nonsense; a way for you to satisfy your right-leaning need to blame the libs.

I don't know about conspiracies, but this event is definitely getting a LOT of very bad press for the liberal actor and industry.

 

[Tom Servo]

Guys, we don't do politics in this subforum, and we certainly don't do liberal vs. conservative stuff. Please dial it back.