Why we are GOING to lose our guns (long & bitter)

Lavan

New member
We used to have compulsory military service. Young men learned
not only how to handle a weapon, but also how to make a bed,
take a shower, be at a certain place at a certain time whether it
was fun or not, and also that there WERE some rare times when
their poop DID stink.

We allowed immigrants to come into the country, work at a factory,
see what America meant, move higher or start a business and enjoy
real freedom and independence. We did not start out by giving them
money and helping them learn to cheat the rest of the country.

Now we have no factories and those who are not Internet whizzes,
stock traders, or scions of wealthy families had better learn to flip
a burger or (if they are over 40) stand at the entrance to Wal Mart
and show customers where to find the “Made in China” section.

We used to have cops who used discretion and the billy club and
we could trust them to pretty much keep a neighborhood in line.
Now as soon as they leave the academy, they shave their head,
buy a mustache, and buff their arms to split their sleeves. And
those who DON’T want to be the only ones with guns are more
afraid of Internal Affairs than criminals.

And what do we show our kids about criminals? We show them
8 goddam televised months of a superhero common murderer
buying his way out of the rap with expensive lawyers and a jury
comprised of elements that we have been brainwashed into
believing are in every way equal and responsible citizens.

We used to be able to cash our paychecks and get real silver
Constitutionally guaranteed money in exchange.

Most kids came home to a mom who cooked dinner and made
them wash up and bring friends home to be introduced. Dad
only needed one job to make ends meet, buy a house and a
car and we ALL seemed to keep clothes on our backs even
when stores were closed on Sunday and a few people went to
church or had fun with the family or both.

We didn’t have Johnson lying about a war for democracy for
no reason, Nixon lying up a storm, Ford inept except when
endorsing the idiotic Warren Report, Carter running from wild
rabbits, Reagan idolized while he ran the debt to record breaking
levels, Bush doing his “read my lips” and “winning” a war by
stopping 50 feet from its cause, and Clinton giving all of them
advanced lessons in sleaze that none of them had the guts to
try.

We hunted and the relatives and neighbors asked how we did
instead of looking at us like freaks.

Now we have kids promoted because there is no room. At the
same time, we want taxes reduced and more government aid.
We have prisons where the cons use it as time to buff up and
the guards are disarmed. Our much valued corporations have
closed the local plant and built a new one in Malaysia and we
continue to buy their product. We no longer know the guy
who owns the store we trade at and we bitch because none
of the clerks know how to work a pencil sharpener. Yet we
constantly search for a lower price to drive the incentive to
own a business to near nothing.

We used to laugh at civil service because it was and still is
a home for the risk-averse and inept power seekers but their group
bargaining power has put each of them in the position of retiring
at an early age with the derivative income of a millionaire while
the independent business person or loyal private sector employee
scrambles to try to find some insurance to stay alive after they
can no longer stand the stress of the “free market economy.”

Our kids are deceived. We buy anything the media says.
We allow morons to vote. We want term limits so our
politicians have to learn to steal or sell-out at an accelerated
rate.

And last but not least, those of us who can remember freedom
and responsibility are getting older. We cling to TFL and KNOW
how bad the removal of guns will be, but we lack the numbers
to counteract the placating liars that run for and hold office.

And, truth to tell, if one goes to a grocery store on any given
day, it really looks as if most of the products of our fallen
system really AREN’T fit to have a gun.

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, “Guns? You can’t HANDLE
a gun.”

Please convince me I am wrong.
 
Lavan - I agree with all of your observations on our society's decadence, except for one: politicians have always been politicians. I think that has been a constant from the day Eve first persuaded her man to bite the apple.

------------------
Idiot, n. A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in human affairs has always been dominant and controlling. -- Ambrose Bierce

[This message has been edited by Clark Kent (edited July 12, 2000).]
 
Lavan, I can't offer a convincing argument against the theory that we will lose our guns, because without some major changes in this country I think it's likely we will. I have some hope that we'll see those changes, but I'm not confident of that.

However, there is one part of your post that I will contest. The many strenghts of our country owe little if anything to compulsory military service. In fact, one could argue that the times when there was compulsory military service have also been associated with great crackdowns on citizens' civil freedom.
 
Damn...

I thought Pat Buchanan had joined the board. :)

I agree with your conclusion. The country is going to hell in a basket. :(
 
I'll disagree with one point.

The "older generation" may remember freedom, but as a whole they are not friends of freedom. They want the benefits they paid for all of those years. Hard to blame them, they got ripped off, but, as a group, they are very willing to trade freedom for prescription meds and medicare benefits.

Older Americans who are true freedom lovers and actively support the cause are rare. Most are clamoring for more entitlements and bigger government.
 
Lavan,

I think you are right on many points. We reached the point a long time back when the rights of corporations became more important than the rights of citizens. Power (by which I mean money) needs to be taken away from the Federal Government and returned to the states.

Ledbetter
 
Good points but we also had a country where significant parts were segregated and employment was denied across the country based on race. www.apbnews.com has a story how Ty Cobb was an FBI informant and how in those days, the Feds thought the move to allow blacks to play in the majors was a communist plot.

Where my mother had to lie about her religion to get a job.

My father was forced to register in a certain political party to be employeed.

And in fact, the erosion of gun rights started very early in some places.

TX just got back the ability to carry concealed weapons.

The Sullivan law in NY was during those Golden Years and probably was racist in origin.

I agree with lots of what you are saying, but everything wasn't golden.

I do fear we will lose gun rights if we do not do more than complain (not you, I'm talking about). I've discussed this with Dennis elsewhere.
 
As much as i agree with you on the gun related part of this, I think that the rest is largely rose-tinted perceptions.
For instance:
factory work then vs now and keeping a roof over your head:just think of all the child labor back then; why was that necessary? Because the kids literally had to work to help keep the family afloat. And almost every town of any size had a shantytown somewhere on the outskirts of town.
Many immigrants are still busting their butts; just look at every Chinese restaurant that opens up...usually run by a family of 8-10 stuffed into a 2 bedroom apartment!
Politicians now are no more or less corrupt or honest than before. Think of Tammany Hall, the corrupt Grant administration, etc.
As for the Police, they HAD to form unions to dispense with the patronage system; until a few short years ago, my department could fire you for any reason with no recourse for the officer, and even in this day and age, many agencies, especially in the South, have no civil service protection. There was no way to ensure a stable career and job security without unions.
I think that you are looking at a particular time period, probably the 50's, when this country was rolling in wealth because we were the only game in town and everyone had to come to us. This led to unseen levels of wealth compared to anything before or since.
The conditions then were the exception, not the rule.
As I said, still believe you have a point on the gun thing.
 
tcsd1236.....The Chinese immigrants have mastered what the WASPS never will. Family units. Also they use gold as their estate planning. I know as I am also a coin dealer and many Chinese restaurants bring in their "skim" (wrinkled $5's and $10's) to buy gold with and evade the income tax that we stupid WASPS pay.
The child labor was here. Yes. But not to the extent that it is still used but we no longer have any factories to employ the children. Good or bad? Dunno.

I will look up in my records the story of Aqbil .......? forgot his name. He was a 12 yr old child labor activist who was due to deliver a report on child labor and he was shot off his bike.

Gimme the old "American exploitation" at least someone here got sumpin.
 
Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again...the country is run amok with scoundrels and wussies, but we'll only lose this fight if we're not willing to win. I'm not as worried about it as I used to be. I'm confident. Gun owners may seem apathetic about it now, but that will change.

As sure as I'm typing this, it may be next week, or next century, but there will be fighting and there will be bloodshed. I'm not advocating this, mind you...just ciphering out the equation.

What we've got is: folks who know their rights + folks who want to take those rights away = conflict.

Better stock up now and start teaching the kiddies how to work the reloading equipment.
You or they or you're great-grandchildren may need it desperately.
 
Lavan--

"What we forget about the Chinese is, is that they're smarter than us."

I think Norm McDonald (comedian) said that. Thought you might get a chuckle.
 
Thu cHimeez ain't neither smorter'n us!
Heck, ta proov it, I make a lokul chinermun gib me a WHOLE PLATE fulla choppt brokkuly fer ownly $8.95. Har har on him.

heh

Ahhhh, found it. Assd. Press 4/21/95
In Islamabad, Pakistan Iqbal Masih was sold into slavery when he was 4. Then after winning the Reebok Youth in Action Award in Boston he was shot off his bike at the age of 12 by the "carpet mafia" who were pissed that he was blowing the whistle on the industry.

THIS is where the child labor is now. And we are buying the products while thinking that we are swell folks for not having child labor here.

Alice, is this the looking glass?
 
An I know military service was good cuz it changed me from a snotty teenage ##shole into a more independent and less snotty ##shole.

When u cain't call mommy, u grows up a bit.
 
Damn, now I have to do laundry.. the old BPV is looking kinda dirty and God forbide I go out with a dirty uniform. Thank goodness the class IV plate ain't rusted. And to think, it's summer, no time to be wearing a fully armored BPV. I guess I'll have to give up the beer for water... oh well.

USP45usp
 
Lavan - Can't disagree with 99.9% of what you said. However, I don't believe "we" will lose our guns. Some will be lost but out of the 250,000,000+/- I'd be willing to bet 90% will still be out there somewhere. Of course there will be a lot more criminals than before but they are the protected class aren't they? If I could turn a different color and become homosexual I'd be home free but I guess I guess I'll just have to play the hand I was delt.

RKBA!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lavan:

And, truth to tell, if one goes to a grocery store on any given
day, it really looks as if most of the products of our fallen
system really AREN’T fit to have a gun.

To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, “Guns? You can’t HANDLE
a gun.”

Please convince me I am wrong.
[/quote]


You are not wrong at all, Lavan. That is much as I remember America growing up too.

Thank you for posting this. Its good to see that there are still a few of us left.

Rant mode ON.

I remember walking out of our town with buddies and .22 rifles to do some squirrel hunting and plinking tin cans.

Nowadays, if the young'uns tried that they'd have half the police force surrounding him with guns locked and loaded for bear.

One false move, and who knows?

After the bastards in blue (dont take that personally all you LEO's; but you guys got some real bad apples out there) killed that young Diallo man in NYC, and got away with it clear and free, all bets are off.

In my day that was called MURDER.

No, I do not not what will happen to this country now, its looking pretty grim to be, but I do know one thing, and one thing
only, Lavan.

I, will not now, NOR WILL I EVER, comply with any more gun control, registration or confiscation laws; not after watching the lowest scum in D.C. get away with the crap they have these last 8 years, after so many good people paided the ultimate sacrifice, in blood, pain and death, so that you and I could be free.

That, IMO, is the very LEAST that we owe to those patriots.

You guys want em', you come and get em'!

From my cold, dead hands!!!

Rant mode OFF.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Munro Williams:
What we keep forgetting is that armed American citizens outnumber the Red Chinese Army.

The people cannot be disarmed. It won't happen.
[/quote]

It will in Kalifornia if Gov. "Red" Davis (no relation) and his crew of gun thieving bandits get their way. :(

Not MY guns, not now, nor ever :D

Besides, Davis and his left-wing fascist ilk LIKE the Chinese communists, and thier crappy goods.

After all, they ARE all comrades in the on going crusade to establish the same political ends, aren't they ? :rolleyes:
 
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