Why US Special Forces don't carry Glocks?

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James A,

I got issued alot of M9s in the Army.

I've shot alot of Glocks.

Glocks win. Only 1 in 4 M9s (aka Beretta model 92FS) was actually RELIABLE. With the Glocks I've owned, it's more like 5 out of 6. They aren't perfect, but they have a nice habit of actually WORKING.

As for elite forces, well, gee. With an unlimited budget there ARE better choices than a Glock. If you want to spend only $450-550 on the other hand, Glocks are a fine choice.

JIMNSHO and all that... :D
 
For those that agree I would like to ask, how many trigger pulls do you waste on a dud round before going on to a "tap, rack, bang" drill? For those of you who dont, its a very good drill to practice and incorporate to reflex.
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I would not recommend EVER incorporating automatic, immediate tap,rack,bang on LIVE rounds that are fully chambered. Practice with snap caps, or at least wait the prescribed hang-fire time before going through the drill. Remember, it might be a hang-fire and not a misfire.

BTW, double strike is useful for some hard primers if you've got a lighter-than-standard hammer spring. I've made use of the capability with S&B ammo. It's always gone bang the second time.
 
This and that…

Tamara asserts:
The Army was investigating DA autos long before the XM9 trials because in addition to the 1911's useage in several heroic situations, it also had the dubious distinction of inflicting more casualties on its operators than on the enemy in almost every war it was used in.
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You're right about the military and the DA semi-autos… this was the genesis of the S&W Model 39 (as well as the Colt's Commander and the High Standard T-3) back in the late '40s, but I find the other proposition dubious. Amusing, but probably hyperbole.

Zundfolge sez:
Thats one of the little things I really like about my Steyr M40 over a Glock, the "Loaded Chamber Indicator" on the back of the gun is a feature that Glock should consider employing in their guns…
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I dunno… most of the people I know, are keenly aware of whether their chamber is loaded or not, if for no other reason than it is, so I'm down with Redlg155 and Covert Mission on this one!

Wild Romanian mentions
…the Glock lovers. And everyone that posts anything less than praise for these weapons is called a liar on this forum.
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'Tain't 'arf as bad as uttering a discouraging word on GlockTalk (a Speir-Free™ Forum), the Tenifer Temple where Gaston is Gawd and any sort of critical thinking skills are checked at the gates! :)

For them, Glock has become a religion… that ol' wag Rosco Benson calls them "the Kool Aid drinkers."

MP-5 reports:
…a Navy S.E.A.L. was testing a lot of Geco B.A.T. rounds. (Blitz Action Trama rounds are a high velocity round with a synthetic nose cap which falls away in flight leaving a cookie-cutter style bullet.…)
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Be advised that Geco round is properly called the "Action Safety Slug." The "B.A.T." acronym was a marketing conceit of one Phat Phil Engeldrum, eccentric publisher of Handgun Tests and Pistolero periodicals back in the early '80s and occasionally since then. RWS/Geco declined to adopt that nickname.

Ellery Holt suggests:
I think the only test that Glocks have failed is the Wild Romanian test.
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Well, there was that DEA "Frisbee Test" back in '91 which disqualified the Glock from further procurement, and led quite directly to the redesign of the frame rails and the Six Part Glock Upgrade of April '92.

NMGlocker pronounces:
…the SEALS use the H&K SOCOM .45 anyway
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Gawd, what gunzine have you been reading?!? NO one uses the Mk 23 Mod 0, fella! It's just there, in several SpecWar units' inventories!

A "fun gun," but w-a-a-a-a-y too heavy and impractical!
 
i wouldnt trade my Glock for 2 berettas

the HS2000 has been used flawlessly in combat
for over a decade in some of the worst conditions
in the balkans.
polymer, SA, whats the problem

didnt Beretta save the military alot of $$$ on there contract
 
The only place where the Glock has had reliability problems is in the surf zone. Somehow, the mixture of saltwater and swirling sand can screw up the firing mechanism. It must infiltrate the striker area somehow.

Now it's possible that the special maritime spring cups that allow water to flow through would either help or even solve the problem altogether, but I don't know.

The Sigs don't have a problem with the surfzone. Since they're hammer fired, they just tick away. I believe that's the major reason the SEAL's go with them over Glocks.

Hope this helps.
 
Dean,

Nice to see you weren't banned from here, like you tend to be from every other gun forum under the sun. GlockTalk wasn't the only one to ban you, and you have been banned from places that don't care a tinker's cuss for a Glock. Not that I necessarily approve of such things; after all, if everyone who made rude and inflamatory posts on gun forums was banned, they'd all be empty in about a week. :D
 
I like Dean's website, I like his writing style, and I enjoy his irreverent attitude.

I might not always AGREE with him (I think S&B .45 230 ball ammo is pretty good for the price) but that doesn't mean I can't ENJOY his posts.

Now, with that out of the way, a person I trust with first hand knowledge that far exceeds my own tells me that a few members of SEAL teams have packed personal Glocks for a long time. The same is true of Hk USP's (.45, mostly). The Glocks are not an issue weapon, the HK's are.
 
Just to throw my 2 cents of experience in....Originally the reason the U.S. Military went to 9mm was that it is a NATO round, meaning in combat a soldier, sailor, or marine can "pick-up" ammo from any of his fellow combantants. With the current and past operations being mostly made up of NATO countries it's nice to have everyone carrying the same round. They do this for a lot of other equipment as well, i.e. gas mask filters. Special Forces on the other had carry pretty much whatever they want. I have friends that carry their personal weapons. It also depends on the mission they are on. Different missions call for different weapons. Most times the weapons are not U.S. Government issue, but military arms from "other" countries. I'll let your minds wander about the reason for this. Back to the Glock question...
Oracle's statement is pretty much on the money. Hope I didn't confuse the issue...

C
 
Well, I've had my Glock for about 5 years. The only time the chamber is not loaded is after running it dry for the last time that session and cleaning it. Chamber round, ready for next time. If there's ever a doubt (which there never is) pull back slide slightly, see glint of brass, chamber is loaded.
My Beretta 92 FSC does have a loaded chamber indicator. I don't remember looking at it since I took it out of the box several years ago and was going through the instruction manual noting the pistol's features.
 
GSB...you mean to tell me, In the middle of a fire fight your going to point the pistol in a safe direction and wait 90 seconds before clearing?
The only way to assure you'll do the apropriate thing in a timely manner during a gunfight is to practice it regularly. 2000 reps is commonly considered the minimum for commiting something to reflex. In the 10's of thousands of rounds of all types, I have never had a hangfire. <knock wood> I would like to think the possibility is all but gone when using modern ammo in good condition. Most hangfires are caused by powder that has been contaminated by sovents or oil. Dont soak your pistol in WD-40 or leave Rem-oil in the chamber and your chances of a hangfire are greatly diminised, practicly to none. Even if you do have a hangfire, the only real danger is when the round is partialy chambered. I cant remeber which magazine, but someone did a test where they placed a live round inside a one foot cubed box and detonated it. The resulting shrapnel didnt even embed in the cardboard.
 
Frankly

I like 'em all. Each has their own following and I, being a fervent fan of auto-loaders, appreciate the nuances that make each unique. That fact notwithstanding, I carry my HK or Ruger decocked with a full mag and one in the pipe. If there is ever any doubt if one is in the chamber, it's only when I'm preparing to strap it on. In such a case, I drop the mag and rack the slide, then reload to decocked, full mag and one in the pipe. I carry in one condition so I know the condition.
 
and Dean...

I know more than a handfull of Seals out on the left coast who carry the HK SOCOM in spite of it's size. Mainly because it is one of the most accurate out-of-the-box weapons on the planet and you can run one through hell and back in virtually any sort of hostile environment, lubricate it with spit and keep the bad guys pinned down. Far more so than the other offerings available to the military. And to support Archer 1440 and 26point2's claims, I also know a few BUDS Grads who carry all sorts of non-GI authorized weapons based solely on personal preference and comfort levels with the majority of these being 9mm platforms. Heck, I know one guy that carries a smith .357 wheelgun.
 
weldonjr2001,

My information is PERFECTLY reliable, because it is true. Is it representative? I hope not. But I never claimed it was. It was just my experience. So in my experience, saying the Beretta is far and away better than the Glock is just absurd. Why you are determined to be an jerk when confronted with an experience that doesn't fit your preconceptions is something I'll never know, but it certainly appears immature.

My experience with the Army-issued M9 runs something like this:

1st M9:

Worked great. Accurate and 100% reliable. Shot expert with it.

2nd-4th M9:

Multiple mis-feeds, shooting NATO 124gr FMJ, while properly cleaned and lubed, on a pistol range.

So what part of "1 in 4" don't you understand? :rolleyes:

Personally, I want nothing to do with anything that says "Beretta" on it, and alot of folks I worked with feel the same way. As always, your mileage may vary -- after all, commercial Berettas certainly have a very good reputation.
 
During my tours of combat in SE Asia in the 60's, the only ones referred to as Special Forces were what everyone then called Green Berets. We were pretty unconventional and pretty damn independent. If you chose to carry a side arm, you carried whatever you wanted. At the time I chose to carry a Browning Hi-Power. There were no Glocks then.
If I were to go into combat today........It would be a Glock!
There is not a more reliable handgun made that will keep functioning in mud, sand, muck, ice, rain, you name it, than a Glock.
For function reliability, the Glock is the AK of handguns.
 
Closed...

...due to seriously declining civility.

It's okay to disagree, even vehemently, as long as you can do it politely.
 
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