Why the 7mm-08 over the 280 Rem?

I've always liked the .280 Rem and I've owned 2 of them over the years. The first was a Remington 700 Mountain rifle which was a great gun as long as you didn't want more than 3 shots out of it, they'd start walking off the paper after that which made for a long sight in process. Incidentally that rifle was stolen and never recovered. The second a custom built benchrest gun which I still own, built on a Mauser 98 action that gun is more accurate than I could ever hope to be. I love the cartridge but if I were looking for something I could buy off the shelf ammo for it would be a 7mm-08 as it's a lot easier to find around here. Since I reload this isn't an issue for me and I would love to have another Mountain Rifle in .280 Rem.

I think the things that contributed the most to the demise of the .280 Rem (not that I think it's obsolete, not by a long shot) was a) Remington's decision to change it's name to 7mm Express and then back to .280 Rem which created a lot of confusion and b) Remington's introduction of the 7mm Rem Mag.

Stu
 
280 Rem / 7400

I have a 280 Rem in a 7400 format and two 7x57 mausers, I shot a 7mm Rem Mag when I was thirteen and it knocked me off the bench
(I weighed 95# at the time) everybody got a kick out of that !! (forgive the pun),
I haven't shot a magnum rifle since. That was almost 40 years ago. My 280 will kill as far as I'll ever shoot, so will the 7mm mauser for that matter.
That 7400 is amazingly accurate (1" @ 100) and the trigger is not bad, 300-400 yards is enough for me, and less recoil is always better in my opinion.
Never shot 7-08, but then I like older cartridges like 300 Savage, 8mm mauser, 30-06, 6.5x55, etc .... all my guns and cartridges are proven killers.
I reload all my ammo, and bullet selection in 7mm is astounding! from groundhogs to moose, the 280 Rem can do it all, within it's limitations of course.
 
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I have to say, I really do like the idea of the .280. If it had been invented 1st over the .270 and was the common ammo on the store shelf, I would have the .280 instead of the .270. And the bullet selections is "astounding". I guess using that argument, I should get a 30-06 (it is on my to-buy list by the way). But also on my "really don't need" list.

Really do like this 7mm-08 I bought. Took it out and shot factory 140gr CL and it shot ok, maybe 1.25 moa. It is well withing minute of deer though and I have begun carrying it hunting already. The first batch of handloads gave better results, got to go back to the range and try out some more loads as soon as I can get there. I really didn't expect much drop in recoil but after shooting the 7mm-08, I shot my .270 and there was a very noticeable difference in recoil. More than expected. I think I am going to fall for this little gun. It is by the way a Mossberg 100ATR Bantam with 20" fluted bbl. It is the youth model, but it came with a 1" spacer for adult use. The youth model was the only 1 with a 20" bbl which is what I was looking for. I guess you could call this Mossberg's "mountain rifle". It is light at 6lbs. $300 brand new out the door.
 
r0sewood

that sounds like a great little gun; 20" barrels are so handy, especially in the coastal woods of western Washington. when I rebarrel my Spanish mauser (next summer) in 7x57 mauser I'm going with a 20", light, handy, plenty of power, and low recoil. Those core lokt's are great bullets and nuthin wrong with 1.25" groups, that's venison in the freezer. Good Luck and great shootin !!
 
Tried out some more hand loads yesterday. Got 0.550" with 139gr BTSP over 40.5gr of RL15. Also got 0.9" with 154GR SST over 39.0gr of RL15. Went ahead and loaded up some more of the 154 for hunting the rest of this season. I will play with the 139 and 154 some more and tune them to the most accurate load I can find. I am quite happy with the performance so far. I am getting better groups than some more expensive guns I have that I have tried a lot of loads on. I may stick with the 154 even if it doesn't shoot as good as the 139 since that is my accuracy bullet in my 7mag and less inventory to keep up with. :)
 
while the 280 is not almost obsolete, it has certainly lost market share and continues to decline. it is a somewhat popular cartridge for custom builds, but that is the proverbial drop in the bucket when compared to the average hunter and what he/she purchases from the local gun store. as for the 7/08, it has a strong following, but nothing even close to the 308/270 win/or 30-06. the 7/08 lacks the power of the 280. one only needs to look at case capacity to see the difference.
 
Try the Hornady 162 Amax or Sierra 160 Game King, pretty consistent in my vintage 7x57 mauser's.
Click to expand...


I just re-barreled my Savage 7-08 to handle the 162 AMax...
If your twist is fast enough, it has an amazing BC of .625. I've read that some use it for hunting, but Hornady doesn't recommend it for that application.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I thought it's be fun to run some numbers in QuickLoad to get a theoretical comparison at SAAMI spec numbers and equal barrel lengths.

24" barrel, SAAMI max pressure, uncompressed loads:

280Rem
110gr Barnes TTXS, 3,405fps
139gr Hornady SP, 3,085fps
180gr Berger BTHP, 2,722

7-08

110gr Barnes, 3,246fps
139gr Hornady, 2,972fps
180gr Berger, 2,595fps


So, it looks like the 7-08 runs right around 125fps behind the .280Rem at almost all bullets weights. Both cartridges will push at least a couple of those bullets slightly faster with compressed loads but neither gains enough to change the numbers to any real degree.

The 7-08 gets the bullets to speeds with a whole lot less powder though.

Both max out the 110gr with RL-17, the 7-08 using only 49.1gr, the .280 using 57.8gr. The 280 is 4% faster but uses 22% more powder. The 280 is 25.4% efficient, the 7-08 is 27.9%

With the 139s, the 7-08 does it with 46.9gr RL-17 (an excellent 30.5% efficient) while the .280 needs Ramshot Hunter and is 26.7% efficient.

With the 180s, the 7-08 likes W760 and is an very excellent 33.7% efficient, the .280 is likes RL19 as is an excellent 29.1% efficient.
 
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Long vs. short, alot more boiler room in the former.

I bet a .280 AI pushing the 162 Amax would be one heck of a 1000 yard target round.

Which is better on paper- the .280 AI, or the 7-06?
 
there was a time when i thought the 708 was going to die out ,for a time i thought it had.
what about the AR10 in 708 ? as far as i know there was/is one but its not very popular. did it not work for some reason ?
 
I have nothing against the 7-08, I'm sure it's a good cartridge.
I just don't see any benifit in it seeing that I already own a fine rifle in a better caliber, the 280.

If I want less recoiling rifles I have two 243s and a 250 Savage, all three of them are very mild in the recoil department.
All three of them are also excellent choices for Deer or Antelope.

Now if I need to go to longer range and bigger game my 280, 30-06 or custom 8mm gets the nod.

If we want to play with numbers, here's some factory numbers.

Both are factory loads shooting 150 grain bullets which I feel would be the minimum I would use on Elk or longer range shooting.

7-08
MV 2650 100yds/2430 200yds/2235 300yds/2043 400/yds/1859 500/tds1689

ME 2339 100yds/1979 200yds/1664 300yds/1390 400yds/1151 500yds/950

280
MV 2890 100yds/2687 200yds/2494 300yds/2308 400yds/2130 500yds/1960

ME 2782 100yds/2405 200/yds2071 300yds/1774 400yds/1511 500yds/1279

I heard or read it suggested many times that the minimum ME for deer is 1200and the minimum for Elk is 1500.
I can't say that I buy into all that but rest assured if I was going Elk hunting or planing on doing some long range shooting on Deer and Elk I would be packing a 280 over a 7-08.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
quote "I just re-barreled my Savage 7-08 to handle the 162 AMax...
If your twist is fast enough, it has an amazing BC of .625. I've read that some use it for hunting, but Hornady doesn't recommend it for that application. "

Use the 162 SSts, they have the same BC as the Amax and are designed for hunting. I bought some for my 7mag, but it groups better with the 154 SSTs. Decided to use the 154s in the 7mm08 to reduce inventory. I may try the 162s since I have some to use anyway and see what I can get.
 
Back when Rem first came out with matte finish varmint rifle with H&S stocks back in the 80's I purchased one in 70-08 and 308. I'd plan to use both rifles shooting factory class match.

Only factory ammo I could buy for 7-08 was Rem with 140gr CL bullet which I chronograph @ 2844fps rifle had 24" long barrel. I worked up load using 168gr Sierra with 40gr/IMR-4064 @ 2563fps and I was looking at that load in Hodgdon 2012 manual max is now 39.8gr/IMR-4064 @2597fps. I'd also worked up load using Rem 140gr CL bullet 48gr/760 @ 2841fps and see that load is couple grains over max now @ 2791fps.

Here in Co don't see lot of 7-08.
 
Only thing I "kill" is steel plates, so energy at 600-1000 is irrelevant to me.
No question the long action .280 can burn more powder behind the bullet and be a better choice for longer range hunting if the energy is needed.

For some reason these days, short actions are preferred. Can't quite figure it out, but the market seems to prefer wildcat short magnums despite the decreased barrel life, over a long action.
 
tobnpr said:
For some reason these days, short actions are preferred. Can't quite figure it out, but the market seems to prefer wildcat short magnums despite the decreased barrel life, over a long action.
Click to expand...

I would guess its because a good many rifle owners don't even know there is such a thing as barrel life and, those who do, very often realize that even rifles chambered in "barrel burning" cartridges will typically outlast several generations of their kin.

Plus, many times when a barrel is "shot out", we're talking about bench rest ideals. Some people buy "shot out" barrels and are more than happy with them, not needing 1/4 MOA accuracy.

I've personally never worn out a barrel, doubt I ever will, and I totally disregard "barrel life" as an issue.
 
If you depend on factory loaded ammo, the 7-08 is a popular, widely distributed cartridge. Indeed, you will often see it in the "sale flyers" these days along with the .243, .308, 30-06, .270 Win. and 30-30.
 
In the early 60's I had a 270, I loved it but with one execption, factory ammo only came in two bullet flavors. A gunsmith friend of the family said he could boar it out to hold a 7mm bullet and give me all kinds of options to reload.
15 years ago I bought another 280 as the barrel got bent on the first one when a horse rolled on it. I have been shooting a 280 for most of my life and prefer it over anything.
JMHO
 
Fourteen years ago it was time to set my son up for deer hunting,I chose the 7mm-08 Rem.
My decision and reasons for the 7mm-08 Rem for a nine year old
1) Less recoil,I also handload so the first practice batches and first year of hunting ammo were reduced loads which helped a lot for a young shooter.
2) The short action rifles are a bit smaller for younger and smaller hunters
3) I'm also a 7mm(.284) fan when it comes to deer/elk hunting cartridges.
Click to expand...

I think this is why it's more popular. Dad's are choosing it for their kids and/or wives as well. After having success for a number of years when young, they are less likely to fall into I need more trap when older. We all carry an affinity for they cartridge we used when younger if we were successful.

I still carry a .243 for deer and lopes. I choose a 708 for my son because elk was in the mix. .280 vs 708 is like having a monster truck to go to the store to pick up milk when a regular non lifted truck will get you there more comfortably.
 
You can show up to the same place and get the job done with either one.Then it becomes shades of grey,and preferences.You can go elk hunting with either,and you have to place your shot with both.

Study your load manuals.My Nosler compares 7-08,280,and 7mm mag,all with 26 in bbls.In a way,that is useful for comparison,but then,who carries a 26 in bbl 7-08?And what happens to a 7 mag if you shorten the bbl to 22 in?

I think for mostly deer at reasonable hunting ranges,the 7-08 is a great choice,particularly with the 139 to 150 gr loads(and,the non-lead bullers,a touch lighter).IMO,as you start stuffing the 160 gr + bullets to fit in a 2.800 mag box,you get to diminishing returns with the 7-08.Still,with a 22 in bbl you would likely get 2600 to 2650 easily.Bullets are designed to expand and perform within velocity ranges,often above 2000 or so.The 7-08 will give the 2000 fps at 300 yds,no problem with a 160 gr bullet.

A typical .280 might have a 24 in bbl and can longer seat 160 to 175 gr bullets.Velocities will be up near 150 fps faster,which translates to nearly 100 yds farther range to still deliver the 2000 fps .

What is interesting is how near to 7mm Rem Mag the .280 comes,generally within 70 or 80 fps.

Now,in the Nosler book,there will seem to be one powder that exceeds the rest,like Re-19 in the 7-08.QWhile I do not discount Re-19 in the 7-08,lets not forget that 26 in bbl.I looked at the cluster of second fastest powders.I set aside the H-870 load in the 7mmRem,too.

Study the numbers,they tell you some.,But,then look at the whole package,and what you are trying to do.If I'm carrying a 7 1/2 lb rifle with a 24 in bbl and I likely will hunt elk,I'd go .280,and shoot 160 gr + bullets.

I could still do all that with a 7-08,just a little less velocity.But if I want a 6 lb,22 in bbl handy little woods gun,the 7-08 is obvious.

Myself,I would lean to the 280 over the 7 Rem Mag more likely,but,once again,its pure preference and shades of grey.
 
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