Why the 180 grain is a bad choice for .40 S&W

Updated this thread with some current data to keep it viable.
Federal HST 180 puts any doubts to rest. HST has passed every test I have seen with outstanding results. Modern day 180 grain bullets have come into their own in the 40S&W. It makes a great choice for woods use where you want heavy for caliber. These HST bullets look like expanding tarantulas.

Here just some tests of the Federal HST 180 grain in a 40 S&W.
http://youtu.be/UWy2AB_AQYo

Great even in short barrels.
http://youtu.be/OuQUyh00Db4

http://youtu.be/rAxmCixySeE

http://youtu.be/8TB4ueQ5sxQ

http://youtu.be/jH7KTx8LRPw
 
Last edited:
HST in 9mm, .40, and .45 is all pretty much the same....bad ass. There is a lot of physics and research then went into that design.

I have never been one to get too hung up on bullet design believing that pretty much all the half decent hollow point ammo in any half decent caliber were fairly capable.

HST has sort of changed my mind in that I really believe that design is pretty amazing. Doesn't matter caliber, doesn't matter barriers it just punches through, mushrooms and stops at exactly the right depth. My hats off to those design guys.

We really have pretty much gotten to the point where caliber doesn't matter. Shoot what you like, what your competent with and caliber doesn't really matter besides cost/recoil/preference etc. Not that I even really believed a couple 10ths of an inch or oz of metal made a huge difference but today wow it really is I the statistical noise and comes down more to the ancillaries like hard barrier penetration or what holds velocity out of an itty bitty barrel.

I have some of the early boarder patrol 155 grain HST stuff and it's stout bout damn it's a heckofaroud
 
Last edited:
The point of developing a handgun cartridge isn't to maximize velocity and energy, it's to accurately put a round on target and punch a hole deep enough to do considerable damage to vital tissues while expanding reliably to make the hole and the resulting damage greater.

In looking at the Federal Premium HST terminal ballistics chart, their 165-gr and 180-gr rounds have identical penetration depths in bare gel, but the 180-gr bullet, not surprisingly, expands more: the 180-gr round wins. Into gel set up to meet the IWBA heavy clothing standard, the 180-gr round beats the 165-gr round in both penetration and expansion.
 
* * * With todays litigious society the ammo makers are not going to produce ammo that will easily grenade.
Click to expand...

Ah, contraer, mon fraier.

Ammo-makers have made 180gn .40S&W ammo that "Kaboomed!", as many documented accounts have shown. These have included both civilian & L.E users. Of course, there've been accounts of reloaders kabooming pistols with their .40 handloads too.

At least with factory .40 ammo, we are seeing less of these Kaboom-incidents today because ammo-makers, having accumulated more years of experience with the .40 cartridge, have developed alternative hybrid powders that work at lower pressures with 180gn projectiles but still yield decent velocities.

As well, they've finally come to accept the fact that the .40's shorten case-capacity means you cannot attain "hot rod" velocities as if it were a 10mm, especially with the 180gn bullets. If you want more velocity - safe velocity - you've got to drop down in bullet-weight, like into the 135-150gn range.

That's why - with one notable exception - no ammo company ever tried making .40 ammo using a bullet heavier than 180gns. The exception is McNett @ DT. Using his own hybrid propellants, he came out with a .40 load some years ago that launches Hornady's 200gn XTP-HP @ 1050fps. That was the first and only 200gn factory .40 load I'm aware of, since the cartridge's introduction in 1990.
 
Last edited:
This statement came from one of our members rather than directly from the article, but it purports to summarize the article:

That was the whole point of the article. With 180's they have to purposely download to reduce the possibility of an overpressure load. Lighter bullets, according to the article, can be loaded to their full potential with less risk of a gun blowing up in your face.
Click to expand...
The statement makes no sense whatsoever. Pressure is pressure. Pretty much by definition, any bullet that's loaded to the maximum safe pressure IS loaded to maximum potential. It's axiomatic that a lighter bullet loaded to the same pressure will develop greater velocity, but IMHO muzzle velocity =/= potential.
 
I don't think any bullet is more susceptible to a kaboom than any other. Over charged or the projectile being pressed too deep are what cause it. If neither is done to ANY bullet weight, no problem. If either is done to ANY bullet weight, problem.

By the way Underwood has two offerings at 200 grains. One hardcast flat nose at 1000 FPS and a sub-sonic hollow point at 950.
 
From the article:

Most manufacturers have begun producing 165gr loads for the .40S&W now.
Click to expand...

This let's you know it's an older article as 165gr. bullets have been a part of the mix for many years now. possible before the 2002 page copyright date.

180 gr. isn't a bad choice. 165 could be better but in a smaller lighter piece the recoil of the 165 becomes a factor due to muzzle blast, etc.

tipoc
 
I too, got partway into the thread, before realizing it was a zombie, but I saw this, and I must speak to it, because it still applies, zombie thread not withstanding.

and it significantly reduces the dangers associated with possible bullet setback (a bullet can, through normal handling, seat itself more deeply just by being loaded into the chamber of a gun, etc).
Click to expand...

This is complete and unadulterated BS!

A bullet that sets back through normal handling and loading is defective. And the weight of the slug has nothing to do with it.
 
I would think that the people who post here would know enough to know this-
Those 3 BILLION or so rounds of .40 S&W that were purchased by DHS were 180 gr. HST. Chew on that.
 
OLD Thread, and a VERY STUPID PREMISE!

Despite the age of this original thread, I was so struck by what I see as abject stupidity in the simplistic argument that I just had to comment. Several recent posters, especially Aguila Blanca, have touched on the salient points, but I wanted to add a bit more info . . .

Neither bullet weights nor velocities blow up guns. Period. Pressure is the issue, and there are so many variables that go into what specific pressure a load can generate that it seems completely laughable to me that anyone can be so fixated on their personal prejudices that they might make such an unqualified statement that a particular bullet weight is a BAD thing for the gun!

There are many many different powders available to us as reloaders, and I am sure there are even more available to the commercial factories. Let me site just a single reload data source - Hodgdon online:

For the .40 S&W, they list load data for two different 180 gr bullets, the BERBFP and the HDY XTP. Max loads for all of their published data with these bullets generate pressures between 28,800 PSI and 34,300 PSI, with the majority being in the 33,000 range. And interestingly, their max load of 6.6 grains of SR 4756 with the HDY XTP produces over 1,000 fps with only 28,800 PSI.

Maybe it is "easier" to screw up a load with the 180 gr bullets, but so what? You can screw up ANYTHING if you try hard enough!
 
am I losing velocity with 180 grain that I could make up with a lighter bullet weight ?
Click to expand...

You are losing a whole lot of velocity, but put it into perspective. I got a good price on 135 grain bullets and so that's what I have been shooting. I get 357 magnum velocities from them. My gel tests show that they penetrate and expand about the same as the much slower moving 180s. Tomayto, tomahto, in my opinion. If I had gotten a good deal on 180s I'd be shooting them instead.

BTW, I have an M&P .40 full size, but my wife and I also have a collection of M&P Shields (subcompacts) that see far more range time. Either gun likes either bullet. Shoot what you have and don't look back.
 
Mauser, I would not have stated it quite like that, but you make a great point. Pressures do not necessarily increase with bullet size. They pretty much stay in the same ballpark, and sometimes they even decrease!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top