why so serious? Bubba?

would you sporterise/tacticool a milsurp rifle?

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Depends on what you mean.

Would I take a rifle that has collectible value now, or is scarce and do this? No.

But let's say for the sake of argument that ten million M-16s were being offered for sale to the general public. Work with me here, this is for the sake of argument. They are selling for 500 bucks each. Would I buy one and then feel obligated to keep it in its 'USGI' original configuration?

Of course not

But would I take a Krag and sporterize it? My 1944 M1? My Dad's 1903A3? Um, no, no I wouldn't even dream of it

A few months back, Victory revolvers that had been in storage in cosmoline since WWII were available, at attractive prices. Original boxes, etc. Would I buy one and have it blued and have target sights put on it? No.
 
I'd likely not do a custom job on a collectible military rifle, but I do tend to raise an eyebrow when somebody regards an SKS or a semi-auto AK 47 as somehow deserving preservation in original condition.

A Model 98 Mauser in high-grade condition is not IMO a good choice for customizing. Keep it as-is. But one which is pretty beat-up? Different story, for me. I guess that's pretty much how I feel about a lot of those old mil-surps. High grades are in a different category than beat-ups. :)
 
For me, a rifle is a tool, and it has a job to do. If it can't do the job as is, it needs to be adjusted. That being said, I would not make changes to a truly valuable piece... then again, I probably wouldn't buy it to begin with. Right now, I can only afford to have functional utilitarian rifles. There is no room in my safe for queens...
 
Honestly, I think common sense rules here...for those that have any.

I have sporterized two 91/30's, both are moa rifles (took a lot of modifications), but they had little dollar value- and therefore, little collector value to begin with.

For cripes sake, there were over 30 million of them made. You don't see anyone griping about AK-47's in ATI stocks, do ya?

IF it's a collectible rifle worth real $$, why in the world would anyone bastardize it and lower it's value???

If I want to make a real shooter project from a milsurp, I'll find one that has little collector value (bad stock, non-matching numbers, worn blueing) and work that one.

I think the "high horse" guys are overreacting. The valuable weapons will always remain as they should, because the guy that paid good $$ for it isn't that stupid...
 
I wouldn't do anything that couldn't be undone.

But I really don't care what you do to yours. (But if you do something that can't be undone to a really collectible milsurp like a 3 digit M1, then you are going to hell, plain and simple :D)
 
If it meant turning a so so rifle into a great shooter that I would enjoy. I would sporterize in a heartbeat.
I love military rifles so i've actually restored a few as well. My formally sporterized 1903 is a prime example of that. Though I didn't go all the way back to the original. The c stock was a replacement so glass bedding it was an easy decision.
Another thing I would do is replace crappy barrels. If I had a military configuration M1917 with an original sewer pipe barrel I would rebarrel it and turn it back into a shooter without even a second thought.
On another note I love well done builds on milsurp rifles. Some of these rifles in this thread I would buy in a heartbeat. Another one I recently saw was a nicely done large ring mauser in 25.06 that had a beautiful stock.
If the quality of work was first rate I would get a rifle rebuilt out of a milsurp. I would however find a a good sporterization candidate. I wouldn't take an all matching perfect bore K98 and cut it up. A mismatched russian capture with a bad barrel would be a better candidate.
 
As far as sporterization by the Garage Gunsmith is concerned:

The number of people who can carve a Schnabel forend < the number of people who believe they can carve a Schnabel forend.

-----krinko
 
Personally, I would never alter any mil-surp. Folks talk about a utilitarian rifle and want to modify it to work better for them but I look at it as a chance to relive the history of the men that carried those rifles and what they had to do to make those issue rifles work for them, not the other way around. As far as the poll goes, I checked the "not in a million years" assuming that the rifle was in original condition. I wouldn't even do it to a non-matching complete rifle either. However, if it was a rifle that Bubba already got to first with no way to restore it back to original configuration, I wouldn't have a problem with it. The reason I never did that either is that I don't go around buying bubba's hack jobs or even have any interest in them. Second, the prices they want for their "custom work" is way too high. I won't spend over $20 for any bubba job no matter how well their workmanship is if their history has already been destroyed.
 
Am I correct, I read that the last enfield is in 45/70?

That's pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Well, it used to be .45-70. Gibbs and Navy Arms made them and they are indeed pretty cool. However, I traded this one to my brother because he fell more deeply in love with it than I did. He had it punched out to .45-90. Now it's a beast.

Tahuna, that M95 is one of the few rifles I regret selling. Take down, double set triggers, light, short, exquisite checkering job. *SIGH*
 
I do find it amusing that those who have no problem modifying a historical rifle think those left alone are automatically "Safe Queens" :rolleyes:
 
This is all relative. Not long ago I saw a Harpers Ferry .54 Musket that had been Bubbafied by some Indian dude about 140 years ago. He cut off the barrel, strapped what was left of the barrel to the stock with a strip of rawhide, stuck a bunch of brass tack in the stock and carved some rune-looking things into it. Did that guy ruin the collector value of that gun or make it a true collector's item?
How do we know that a 98 Mauser cut down and rechambered to something like 8MM-06 and stuck in an old Herter's stock by some deer hunter in 1957 might not turn out to be quite the collector's item some day?
There are plenty of original condition military surplus arms in collections and museums around the world. I don't give a rat's a** about 'collector value'. If dollar signs were the only thing that counted I would have bought gold, not rifles.
During the immediate post-WWII era there were many quite talented gunsmiths around turning Mausers, Springfields and Enfields into beautiful sporting rifles. Do those guns have no value in their own right?
This subject is just plain silly.
 
I like projects, and if I had a project in mind that I really was gunho for and I had to chop a milsurp to do it, I might. It depends.

For example, I was on an 8mm kick and had several bolt action Mausers. I wanted to make an 8mm semi-auto brush gun from a Hakim to go with them. I did all the measurements, lined up some local welding help, etc. and had no qualms of conscious about cutting the barrel down to 18", and the stock to go with the new config. I had a Hakim, but I first looked for a bubba'd Hakim that already had a whacked stock. I set myself a time limit, if I hadn't found a mucked up Hakim by x-date, I would have just started in on mine.

As it was, I used the money on an anniversary gift and then decided to just get out of the 8mm business altogether, so my stock Hakim passed on to other, safer hands.

For most of my dream projects, a milsurp wouldn't qualify, but for that one it was the only solution, since I didn't have the money to bubba-up a G43 or an FN-49.
 
milsurps, sporterized or not, were made to be shot and shot often.
I have five mausers, three in 8mm - one sporter, and two military and two in 7mm - one sporter and one military. I have several friends that have some also and we all have more than one (they are addictive) we all handload and have little private competitions. I say if it is your gun, do as you wish. I'm still lookin for a swede.
 
I am of the school that preserving milsurps is preserving history. If you really don't want it, or you want a project rifle, sell of trade the milsurp for something newer, with no historical value.
"Bubba" to my mind conjures up images of butchered rifles, ineptly-and often incorrectly-drilled and tapped, work performed by people who really had no idea of what they were doing. As the saying goes, taking a $200.00 rifle, putting $300.00 of parts and work into, and turning it into a $100.00 rifle, ruining its historical value, and its use as a firearm.
I also question the rational behind using a 60-70 year old milsurp that has gone through who knows what, perhaps made under less than optimum conditions by hastily trained workers, out of often questionable materials in a desparate effort to get weapons into the hands of troops.
 
I have built a number of rifles on milsurp actions.The thing is,I do not buy a milsurp rifle and chop it.
Between friends and gunshows,I have bought 98's,p-14's,and one 1903-A3 as bare or barreled actions over the last 35 or 40 years.

Those have made some nice rifles.

It helps that I worked 30 yrs building models'prototypes,and plastic injection molds.I have access to a Bridgeport and a lathe.

Today,if I had a Springfield action,I would restore it.I would do that because the end product I would visualize would be a Mil Springfield.

Mausers,etc,for myself,finding each bit of hardware and paying $7 for a screw,I'm not likely to restore it.Maybe,if Numrich,or Sarco put together restoration kits,like all hardware,maybe wood,to restore an action to a rifle,for a reasonable price,I would.

But I do agree,the time of altering complete milsurp rifles is past.

IMO,the most powerful way to develop appreciation for these rifles is what kraigwy does:He puts on Vintage battle rifle shoots,which help meet requirements forCMP purchases.

I had to miss the last one,look forward to the next.

BTW,on a similar line,my former spouse bought me a Browning 92 .44 Carbine,

Nice,but it just did not fit.

I bought a Douglas barrel blank,a chunk of tight,straight grain walnut,Win Crescent buttplate,some original detail pieces,like the mag tube band and forend cap.

I cut the barrel tapered octagon,rifle length,made a stock that fits me,the only Browning part I used was the receiver.

I used Mark Lee browning solution in a boiling water tank to rust blue it.

I am truly not sorry.It is a far better rifle now.I'm sure someone disapproves.I don't care.
 
I'm going to go find some pristine milsurps to buy.

Then you guys can bid on them to make sure they don't get "called home" by Bubba!:cool:

Eh, do what you want with it. You're a fool if you cut up a collector grade firearm (for financial reasons) , but as for the rest, do what makes financial sense.
 
If the rifle is still in good enough shape, I have no problem leaving it in stock form.

But, if it is just a run of the mill, used or abused surplus rifle.......I have no reservations about doing some modifications to it. If somebody has issues with me sporterizing, or otherwise modifying my surplus guns............I will take a postal money order, or certified cashiers check and send them my rifle to save from the evils of being a victim of Bubba.
 
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