Why not Ruger?

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Glocks above 9mm: Unsupported chambers cause KABOOMS!
Sigs: Frames crack, small parts fail.

Berettas: Locking blocks fail causing slide cracking or barrel lug destruction.

Kimber: Well should I even go there?

HK: Barrels rust

CZ: Trigger pin backs out.

Firstoff, the vast majority of the problems you listed above, have either already been rectified, or are "old wives tales".
As for the Ruger P90 being the best firearm around, and that bull**** line about how you can fire .45 Super through a P90 and not a G-21, lets illuminate the crowd with some info.
1. The P90 was originally intended for the 10mm, but Ruger dropped the idea when he realized there really wasn't that big of a market for it. So instead he played around with the design a bit and set it up to fire the .45 caliber round. So understand with the P90 you have a 10mm pistol firing a .45 round, thats why you can put .45 Super through it.
2. Ruger's are casting's not forgings. Because of this they are far more prone to cracking and the gun metal has to be made thicker to get the same tensile strength than a forging (i.e. all those "inferior" guns like Glock, H&K, etc...)
3. Because the metal is thicker, this tends to lend itself to a large, blocky weapon. Far more so than the supposedly "large, blocky" Glock.
4. One of the reason why Bill Ruger makes casting's is because its so CHEAP! That's why you can get two Ruger's for the price of one H&K...You get what you pay for.
5. As for accuracy issues, with the Glock you can get 2" groups right out of the box. As for Ruger, really can't say, but a skilled pistol shooter can probably get the same out of a P90....Wanna know a secret I can get 3" groups out of a .38 S&W "Chief's Special", or a Taurus M605 at 25 yards. Depends on the skill of the shooter. As far as a "Ransom Rest", I don't believe you can shoot a Glock from one.
You like Ruger, you love Ruger, great! But don't villify all the other fine firearms out their just to elevate your weapon of choice.

Jon
 
Thanks to everyone for your input. This Ruger thing has truly perplexed me for many years and even though I do not have one now, I am considering a P 97.

Are they a Glock,Sig or HK? Probably not but as it was well said on a earlier post, you get what you pay for. For a carry pistol that will be knocked around and in and out of a glove box or drug through a stand of timber while walking a land line, the P97 should perform well. Out of all of the posts, I read very few that exercised extreme caution about buying a Ruger P Series.

Finally, no gun is without flaws and for those of you out there with a CZ,HK,Sig or Glock. You have my admiration and you are the owner of one fine handgun.

Thanks again for your time and input.

WB

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Question for Weshoot2

I am not going to pretend that I am intimatly familiar with what previously happened, but how is what Bill Ruger did not a stab in our backs and just his being smart? He tells congress "no honest man needs that many rounds in a sidearm" becaus he is getting his behind handed to him by Glock and needs to take away some of their advantage (higher than nopmal capacity). Selling away our rights for profit, as an American, I find that somewhat similar to treason. You can probably guess what I think should be done to traitors.

That might be smart for him, he gets more money, not like he is going to be struggling with the bills anytime soon. My parents work in Newport NH, where the Ruger factory is, and I can tell you that he is not wanting for money. He is a modest man, but make no mistake about it, he has more money than most of us will ever have. Even if it is just capitalism, how much money is enough? I would hope that after one acquired enough money to live comfortably, other things would gain importance, like principle. He lives in a free country that allows for an individual to make money, yet the persuit of that money has caused him to cry out against those freedoms! Bad medicine. I dont know how something like that can be justified.

On another note, does anyone know if any Frankenstein attempts were made to fire the 10mm through a P90, maybe with a barrel change and some other modifications. I know that its been done to the USP.
 
I think Fire Dragon makes a 10mm barrel for the P90... I know they make 400 Corbon...

Benelli isn't the only Super 90...



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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
 
Remember, Ruger suggested a magazine capacity cap of fifteen (-15-). The liberals took five more when they enacted the ban.

I think he learned his lesson.
 
Bobbalouie,

Most people don't remember that tidbit of information... Bill Ruger is probably our BEST supporter from the gun manufacturers today... he is getting old too... I hope his descendants are as cagey as he is... otherwise when he passes on, Ruger will go the way of Colt, S&W, Glock...

Not a very rosy future in my opinion.



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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
 
It's true that Ruger's proposed mag limit was fifteen rounds. However, his proposal would have banned possession of these magazines, not just manufacture! So, all sixteen round glock magazines would have been illegal- folks, turn yours in to the nearest police station! The man is complete fool for even thinking of such a thing.

He is supposed to have repented. Let us hope so. I'm not boycotting him, despite his idiocy, and I own one of his guns, which is a fine product, in my opinion.
 
The KaBoom syndrome has happened to almost every gun chambered in 40 SW including the Rugers. There just aren't a high volume of people exposing the P-series of the Rugers to funky loads. I reload and have never seen another reloader shooting a Ruger. What does that tell you?

But to answer your question, Ruger large bore pistols are viewed as entry level guns. I think Ruger just has a perception problem - his guns are priced on the low end.

When you're talking about a product that causes an explosion and launches projectiles, a cheap or cheesy image is hurtful to sales. I think the sheer mass of these guns makes them unattractive to the American gun market. Concealed carry is a big feature many guns must aim for to break into the market.

How many people pack Star MegaStars or Desert Eagles anymore? Big is not better, just printable.

Ruger pistols are well built but clumsy and the balance just ain't there. Their sights are rudimentary. The grip is not contoured like a Sigma (I can't believe I said that!) more like a plastic 2x4 in your hand.

They also have low trade-in values because a buyer can always buy a new Ruger.

Oh yeah . . . where is a or the Ruger fan page. I see tons of Glock pages, several Sig pages, some HK pages, a Beretta page but no SW or Ruger pages. They may be there but not publisized. Hmmmmm . . .

Ruger .22s 22/45 yes. Ruger revolvers maybe. Ruger Mini-14/30 ranch rifle yes. Ruger PC9 9mm carbine yes. Ruger Bullpup riot shotgun yes.

But not anything chambered in 9mm, 40 SW, or 45 ACP in the handgun family. There are just too many other good guns out there for another $100-200 more.

Just suck it up and eat more ramon noodles for another month. Then you can get the gun you really want in your heart of hearts. A Glock, Kahr, Sig, HK, Beretta, or whatever.

Let's get real. It's not just about the gun. Are you saying . . . I'm a Ruger guy?

It's the satisfaction of being at the range with your buddies shooting the cool sweet gun, not the POC cuz I got $300 in my bank account gun.

Heck, I saved my money for a pair of HK P7s and you can shoot a smiley face at 15 yards with those things.

Get the Corvette not the Metro. Save your freakin money! Don't embarass yourself! I love you man!!!! I'll send you some money to start your fund. Come on!

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The Seattle SharpShooter

[This message has been edited by jtduncan (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
Glocks above 9mm: Unsupported chambers cause KABOOMS!

Glock 40's Ka boom and then only with reloaded ammo and one batch of bad factory ammo from federal that blew all kinds of guns up. I carry a glock 10mm on duty and a glock 31 off duty no problems. They are simply the best police sidearm out there overall.

Sigs: Frames crack, small parts fail.

Highly overstated. Only sig 226 had frame crackes and then only a certain batch. ALso the guns kept working anyway. These are some excellent weapons also and my sig 239 is my preferred summer carry gun.

Berettas: Locking blocks fail causing slide cracking or barrel lug destruction.

Again over stated as the only berettas to fail had 9mm subgun ammo in them.

Kimber: Well should I even go there?
My kimber works fine whats wrong with yours.

HK: Barrels rust
Never seen it. Fireing pins do break if dry fired much however. Solution buy snap caps.

CZ: Trigger pin backs out.
No idea

Ruger I have seen one ruger lemon a p94 in 40sw so they must all be pieces of junk right. Also rugers also have the worst ergonomiks known to man and their triggers are terrible. They are bulky and hard to conceal. I will say that they are one of the best made american made double action auto's. Smiths suck.
PAT


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I intend to go into harms way.
 
you might consider that Bill Ruger is almost 80 yrs old now and lives in the past where you could trust your government. Where the 1911, M-14 and even the luger were the weapons of choice in the military. Notice the corresponding P series, Mini series and the Mark II. They might be considered copies of the military counterparts.

He may never have considered that during his lifetime that the citizens would have to arm theirselves againt the government, a situation where high capacity mags and assault style weapons are needed.

Look at the times he grew up in, you could buy a rifle through the mail.

If you look at the majority of his products they are designed with the hunter in mind, not the militia member or patriot. Who else chambers rifles in 6.5 X 55 Swedish and 7 X 57? If your looking to arm your squad you might be look in the wrong place.


The magazine ban, maybe he actually though it might help. He probably doesnt thing we need more than 10 rds for self defense, maybe thats a correct assumption.

He might also believe there is actually something called common sense gun control, but its nothing at all what a politician would talk about.

I say give the old man a break.
 
JT/355Sig:

Great replies! Again, thanks for all of the input from everyone. I keep going back to Sigs, Glocks, HK's and Berettas. The Ruger might be a good extra weapon because in spite of all of negatives, they are tough as nails.

Gee, this post just keeps going. Should we start another 9mm vs 45 debate? Na-a-a-ah. I've said it and it bears repeating: TFL is the best source of info available when it it's time to choose another handgun. Thanks to all that make it happen.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jtduncan:
The KaBoom syndrome has happened to almost every gun chambered in 40 SW including the Rugers. There just aren't a high volume of people exposing the P-series of the Rugers to funky loads. I reload and have never seen another reloader shooting a Ruger. What does that tell you?

But to answer your question, Ruger large bore pistols are viewed as entry level guns. I think Ruger just has a perception problem - his guns are priced on the low end.

When you're talking about a product that causes an explosion and launches projectiles, a cheap or cheesy image is hurtful to sales. I think the sheer mass of these guns makes them unattractive to the American gun market. Concealed carry is a big feature many guns must aim for to break into the market.

How many people pack Star MegaStars or Desert Eagles anymore? Big is not better, just printable.

Ruger pistols are well built but clumsy and the balance just ain't there. Their sights are rudimentary. The grip is not contoured like a Sigma (I can't believe I said that!) more like a plastic 2x4 in your hand.

They also have low trade-in values because a buyer can always buy a new Ruger.

Oh yeah . . . where is a or the Ruger fan page. I see tons of Glock pages, several Sig pages, some HK pages, a Beretta page but no SW or Ruger pages. They may be there but not publisized. Hmmmmm . . .

Ruger .22s 22/45 yes. Ruger revolvers maybe. Ruger Mini-14/30 ranch rifle yes. Ruger PC9 9mm carbine yes. Ruger Bullpup riot shotgun yes.

But not anything chambered in 9mm, 40 SW, or 45 ACP in the handgun family. There are just too many other good guns out there for another $100-200 more.

Just suck it up and eat more ramon noodles for another month. Then you can get the gun you really want in your heart of hearts. A Glock, Kahr, Sig, HK, Beretta, or whatever.

Let's get real. It's not just about the gun. Are you saying . . . I'm a Ruger guy?

It's the satisfaction of being at the range with your buddies shooting the cool sweet gun, not the POC cuz I got $300 in my bank account gun.

Heck, I saved my money for a pair of HK P7s and you can shoot a smiley face at 15 yards with those things.

Get the Corvette not the Metro. Save your freakin money! Don't embarass yourself! I love you man!!!! I'll send you some money to start your fund. Come on!

[/quote]

Hmmm... I reload for a Ruger P90DC... I reload .45 SUPER for a P90DC... I shoot loads that would cause an "unsupported chamber" gun to literally BLOW UP. :eek:

FYI:
http://www.rugerforum.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rugerforum/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

I wouldn't call a Ruger a METRO... I wouldn't call a GLOCK a Corvette either, although they are both plastic... :D

I think of it more this way:

The Ruger is a "plain jane", no frills base 4X4 American pickup truck. The H&K is a Mercedes ML320. The Glock is a Toyota 4-Runner. The SIG? Land Rover...

I like simple... I like utilitarian. I like not freaking out if the pistol is accidentally dropped in the dirt (try that with your Les Baer)... And accurate? I can do your smiley face at 15 yards easily... with 1200 FPS 200 gr. handloads to boot.

Ah, opinions... they are like anuses... everyone has one and they usually STINK!

KYPD...

Oh yeah... I AM A RUGER GUY... and a Winchester guy, Remington guy, Marlin guy, Enfield guy, High Standard guy... :D

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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

[This message has been edited by Desert Dog (edited May 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Desert Dog (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
Ruger's support of a 15 round limit (and the consequential enacting of a 10 round limit) demonstrates once again that when you deal with the devil, you get exactly what you deserve.

S&W's agreement with HUD (and the subsequent lawsuits by Philadelphia and Newark) demonstrates once again that when you deal with the devil, you get exactly what you deserve.

Neville Chamberlain, back in WWII ....

I'm sure we all see the point here.

I haven't seen anything where Ruger recanted his support of the 1994 AWB and high-cap magazine ban. If he is truly repentant, why hasn't he changed his company motto from "arms makers for responsible SPORTSMEN" to something more in line with our right to arms, which we all know has nothing to do with sporting purposes (gee that sounds like the 1968 GCA to me).

Ruger's products are built like tanks and are a good value for the money. But Ruger is no friend of right to arms -- so ask yourself if you feel right giving him your money.

Justin

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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
 
Dang, Justin,

With that attitude, eventually EVERYONE will piss you off and you won't be able to buy ANYTHING!

Large corporations are in business to make money, not make friends. If you wanted to, you could find fault in every company that make every product you purchase... EVERYDAY!

Boycotting brands of firearms because you don't agree with the makers' methods or beliefs, in this atmosphere of anti-gun rhetoric spewed by gun grabbers will be the death knell...

"We need to hang together, or we will surely hang separately" - ?



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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
 
At the time Ruger came out in support of an original capacity magazine ban (LONG before 1993), his reasoning was that we needed to make compromises to preserve some of our rights for as long as we could. Allow our mags to go now so we could keep handguns longer, then allow handguns to go so we can keep rifles, etc.

Ruger has always been about keeping HIS business going, at least until he's dead. I won't buy a Ruger till ole Bill is pushing up daisies, and maybe not even then.
 
I agree, we must stick together or hang.

Tell compromisers like Ruger, S&W, Remington, Colt and whoever else to get their kiesters in line and we will be fine.

Tell the other 95% of American gun owners to get off their kiesters and join the NRA, GOA, JPFO or whoever and we will be fine.

As Neville Chamberlain demonstrated prior to WWII (and there are other examples), appeasement just gets you to the same result -- just slower. Those who refuse to learn from history's mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Justin

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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania


[This message has been edited by jthuang (edited May 04, 2000).]
 
This thread is a crack-up! H&K, SIG, Glock, Beretta, Kimber. Industry leaders for several reason`s, justifying why many more people who pay 600 plus dollors for these guns far and away exceed that who pay $400 for a Ruger. I hold no ilk for Ruger, and I am sure there is a solid following for them. I just find this thread amusing in that it appears useless for what it attempts to advance. Tree Rat.
 
The first "decent" gun (before that I had a Llama .45 and a Taurus snubbie)I owned was a Ruger P95. I learned to shoot on that gun. It was totally reliable, ate anything I fed it, and was reasonably accurate. It also had less muzzle flip and less recoil than my Glock 19. But, being new to guns, I read too much. I stupidly believed that higher cost always equals higher quality. Sold the Ruger a while back in search of a "better" gun. I still miss it. BTW, if every purchase I made was based on the ethics or integrity of the company I was buying from, I'd be living in a cave.
 
HowardK and Desert Dog, I agree with you that every manufacturer does or believes _something_ that I don't agree with. Heck, I understand that if I buy a new Kahr, I am benefiting a member of the Rev. Moon's family. But the Rev. Moon and the Unification Church aren't trying to abolish the Second Amendment.

My opposition to purchasing more Ruger guns is based solely on Ruger's record on RKBA and gun rights. It is actions like those of Ruger and S&W -- self-serving efforts to benefit themselves at the expense of their customers and other manufacturers -- that will be the death knell of the industry. And that is why I will buy no more of their products. Better for them to go out of business (which actually won't happen with Ruger, since firearms are only part of a much larger business for them) than for them to drive out the companies that aren't betraying their customers.
 
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