Why No .22LR Hard Casts?

D

Dragline45

New member
Just for fun yesterday I was messing around with a few different .22LR rounds to see how they reacted when shot into buckets of water. Due to them being soft lead they all deformed in one way or another, which got me to thinking why don't they make .22LR hard Casts? Since .22's can not be jacketed it would only make sense to have hard cast .22 rounds.
 
I believe that the speed, size and power of the .22LR is not enough to make cast bullets worthwhile. Considering that the majority of game taken with the .22 is small game, the upset of the soft bullet is a major advantage over hard cast, who's primary benefit is penetration over expansion.

So, besides needing additional steps in manufacturing, and a potential reduction of performance against small game, nobody is very interested in hard cast slugs for the .22 LR.

Now, when you get up to 35 caliber and larger, with bullets 4 or more times the mass of a .22, and/or speeds in the 1600fps neighborhood then hard cast bullets show a marked advantage over softer ones. (handguns)

With rifles, cast bullets are available in .22 cal (well molds are anyway), and you could cast and load them hard. For .22 centerfires, what you are looking for is harder cast slugs to survive higher speeds. Even with hard cast slugs and gas checks, 2200fps is about the top end you can get with lead bullets before the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. For faster speeds you must go to a jacketed bullet, or be prepared to scrub lead out of your bore every few shots...
 
Not needed for plinking.
For varminting, you don't necessarily want a hardcast bullet that just zips on through doing relatively little damage.

For head shots if hunting for meat, you don't need a hardcast bullet.

No real need for a hardcast .22 rimfire at all, that I can see. :)
Denis
 
I can see all your points, but you would think at least some ammo manufacturers would make some as a specialty ammunition and just charge a few bucks more per box. Many people own .22 rifles as survival rifles, and even though a .22LR is not really suitable for anything but small game, if in a pinch some .22LR hard cast rounds would at least give you slightly more of an edge if you need to take slightly larger game. Also, not that I recommend it, but there are many people who use .22LR pistols as a carry or SD gun. One of the major arguments besides reliability for not using .22LR for SD is lack of penetration which a hard cast round would help with. I think a CCI Stinger with a hard cast bullet would be pretty nifty to have around even if you have no plans to ever use it. I mean there's a reason .22 magnum rounds are jacketed, I don't see how a hot .22LR round like the stinger could not benefit from a hard cast.
 
I'd like to see the return of the 22 wadcutter bullets made before WWII, but I will not hold my breath. I'm sure if one of the manufacturers saw a market for hardcasts it would have been filled.
 
Well, you could load your own.
There are two experimenters that I know of who are loading real deal black powder .22 LR with cast bullets. Not hard cast, true, but if you were going to stay with smokeless, you could.
 
The Remington Viper loads are probably about as close as you'll come for a penetration load. They were a flat point truncated cone bullet. They killed small game better than round nose loads in any event, even without expanding, and I believe were a little hotter than normal.

People still slaughter livestock with 22's, using proper placement up close, but standard loads seem to do the job.

I believe one reason 22 bullets aren't hard is because there is enough variation in bore sizes that they likely wouldnt shoot as well in as many different guns as the regular loads. Just a guess.
 
...Also, not that I recommend it, but there are many people who use .22LR pistols as a carry or SD gun. One of the major arguments besides reliability for not using .22LR for SD is lack of penetration which a hard cast round would help with...
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It's my understanding that .22lr actually penetrates surprisingly well given its meager mass and velocity. I've seen numerous ballistic gel tests where the bullet exceeded 12" of penetration (out of handguns and rifles). Here are a few:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2PSddmxGtI&list=PLA62F9C412133861E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MMpCXpztAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvdjdzB_ro&list=PLA62F9C412133861E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbVY4gT5P20&list=PLA62F9C412133861E

In my own very informal tests at SD distances, I've found that CCI Velocitors and RN Mini-Mags out of a 4" barrel will punch through at least four gallon jugs of water (24").

Of course, water and ballistic gel don't have bones in them, but as Malamute pointed out, full grown cattle (with thick skulls) are slaughtered with a .22 to the brain (the same can be said about Alligators). I wouldn't say penetration is necessarily a glaring weakness of the 22lr.
 
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Soft lead is necessary for .22LR rounds to expand the hollow bases to seal propulsion gasses.

There is a company that makes (or made) accurizers that allow a person to better size .22 LR rounds for chambers and to create either hollow-point, or dimple-point rounds.

It's called the Paco Kelly .22 cal Pase IV Acc'Rzr Tool, shown in the attached picture. I only used it to re-size some old Winchester ammo that was given to me. The rounds were corroded where the lead met brass and wouldn't chamber in any of my guns. I re-sized them, using one of the four "chambers", using the cup point to flatten the nose a bit and to eject the round from the device. I then used melted candle wax to re-lube the bullets where they were corroded.

I didn't know how badly the ammo was affected by whatever storage prior to my receipt, so decided to try it in my Marlin 39A at about 35 yards. I fired from a sitting position, resting on a sandbag on the porch railing.

The results were somewhat astounding. I was expecting duds, wildly varying velocities, and bullets stuck in the barrel, but was surprised to find that the old WW Super Speed ammo shot as well or better than current bulk ammo. Groups were 1/2"-5/8" at the 35 yard distance.

I haven't yet tried the tool on any of my RWS 50 or other good quality ammo, but intend to do so soon.
 

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D45, as many have said, no need and no point.
In fact, one of the best small game, and presumably self defense, .22 rounds on the market, IMHO, is the CCI SGB. It is a very soft lead, slightly heavier than most others. I once did a highly scientific :rolleyes: test of this bullet. Using a variety of other rounds I fired into an old stump. All made a tiny hole and that was it. Using the SGB it tore fist size chunks out of the stump. I believe it would be a convincing round on bad guys.
 
Remington Thunderbolts are about the hardest deepest penetrating 22lr bullets I've played with.
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Unless they've done some serious improvements they're the wort crap I've ever tried to use.
 
They work fine for me in my 10/22 and SR22. They have a really hard bullet (for 22lr) that penetrates as well as any 22lr ammo I've tested and they're cheap. People complain that they're dirty but show me rimfire ammo that isn't. I clean my guns anyway so it's a non issue for me.
 
Dragline45 said:
With all that said, why are many .22 magnum rounds jacketed if a .22 round benefits from the softer lead?
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1) A .22WRM is not a .22LR, in bore & bullet diameters, and velocity - and is a different breed of cat.

2) Many .22WRM "jacketed" bullets are not - they actually carry a plating that appears like a separate jacket, and seems to be enough to act like one.


.
 
FWIW, at the start of WWII the US military did place a large order of FMJ .22 Long Rifle cartridges. However they were designed for shooting people , not rabbits.
 
I would think that hard cast bullets for .22LR would at least double the price of swaged lead bullets with no real benefits.

Picher said:
Soft lead is necessary for .22LR rounds to expand the hollow bases to seal propulsion gasses.
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I have pulled quite a few .22 LR bullets and have never seen a hollow base.
 
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