Why Israeli Carry Is A Bad Idea

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I could see why armies do "Israel carry" you are dealing with many people who do not have that much experience handling handguns. i have read some stats where armies have had more accidental shootings then actual combat shootings.
 
I think C3 went away with the switch from 1911's to Berettas. Honest fellas, those that the army had were shot out worn down pos. No way would I trust it to stay locked. C3 with a G.I. flap holster converted to loaded and cocked on the draw. I think anyone who wore an MP brassard in that time frame could present ready to go faster than I suppose many of you can imagine.
Just as you can cycle the action on your heel, the flap holster with the shelf works just the same, and with practice, Bob's your uncle.
 
If I did not intend to carry with a loaded chamber, I would not carry. If you come under attack time will be important. If one is so unfamiliar with his gun that he doesn't carry one in the chamber, I doubt he will be good enough to work the action and get into action in the time needed.


Practice with the gun until operation is second nature, and that safety is always practiced. If not then maybe a revolver is the way to go.

Jerry
 
Does anyone who carries a modern revolver or uses one for home SD, have it load such that first trigger pull lands on an empty chamber?

Just curious. Is the issue just trigger pull? Human factors research shows that under stress you can ND a DA/SA or DAO semi quite easily.
 
Only reason to have an auto in C3 is when it's being stored off-body, such as in a safe or a nightstand. Having that extra step is safer when you're waking up.

If the gun is on your person, it needs to be in C1 or C2, dependant on the design of your auto.

GM1967: the grip safety on a XD is a manual safety....it is just one that is easier to disengage than other types.
 
My point is that the 1911 was way past meaningful maintenance and had to be carried C3 for safety's sake. If you have never had a 1911 so worn out that it wouldn't stay locked, you don't have a complete experience set. I don't know anyone who even remotely suggests cocked but not locked is safe carry.
Sure you still have a grip safety, but all the weapon familiarity you could possibly acquire won't make it safe. So pontificate all you want. If the old man said carry that way, that's the way you carried. And that's the name of that tune. If you think that was dumb, we were still trained to shoot the M16 dry, that is sans lube. You wouldn't believe the arguments about that one!
 
How do they carry their M9s in the military today? Round in chamber, hammer down ready for first shot dbl action?


Sgt Lumpy
 
SGT L., depends on the unit, the mission and the place. We had one commander dictate carrying the M9 in Condition 3, even out and about.

:rolleyes:
 
The military version Beretta, does the safety/de-cocker function as only a decocker (momentary) or can it stay in the down/safety/unable to fire position?

I know the 92s came with both variants.


Sgt Lumpy
 
The military version Beretta, does the safety/de-cocker function as only a decocker (momentary) or can it stay in the down/safety/unable to fire position?
Click to expand...

Does not matter. It has a firing pin lock.

Hammer down is 100 percent safe with the M9.

1911's, of GI standard, don't have a firing pin lock and can be fired if dropped on the muzzle.

Deaf
 
OK. Every cop I know that carries a 92 hates the safety version of that lever. The decocker version decocks but then spring load returns to the ready to fire dbl action position. It's in a really odd spot and pivots from the rear compared to a 1911 which pivots from the front. Not very ergonomic.

I just didn't know if the military version had that same goofy thing or if they used the decocker only version.


Sgt Lumpy
 
The trick with using the Beretta (actually S&W and Walther used the same method) safety is to flick it off when bringing your hand down to draw the weapon. Don't flick it off after drawing it was it's awkward.

But while the hand comes down on the grip, flick the safety off with your thumb. Then grasp the gun and draw it.

Works quite well.

Deaf
 
Or simply carry it in dbl action ready to fire condition, decocker NOT locked down. I guess it's the 92G model that has the momentary decocker lever.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Ayoob; US armed forces....

Gun writer & tactics instructor; Massad Ayoob wrote in a recent(2011/2012) article that US Army troops carry the M9 9mmNATO, safety on empty chamber with a 15rd M9 magazine.
He said the USAF Security Forces(what were SPs) do the same on most bases; empty chamber safety on loaded pistol magazine.
They may have "cruiser" ready Mossberg or 870 pump 12ga shotguns or M4 5.56mm rifles(loaded magazines; 30-40rds)

Note; in CONUS, the MPs(and I think the SFs or Navy SPs/shore patrol) no longer conduct LE operations(Law & Order). This new DA(Dept of the Army) memorandum came out in 2012.
General security & LE details are done by 083 police officers(federal employees) or private contract security(PSCs).
They are armed & trained but can not enforce the UCMJ(Uniform Code of Military Justice).
Overseas(USFK, Japan, Italy, Europe, Africa, etc) MPs & SFs still have LE powers.
 
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