I suspect shot regulation has reduced the demand for the 16 gauge. In addition, with the exception of the Ithaca Model 37 with the aluminum receiver, the difference in weight between a 12 gauge and a 16 gauge with the same action type would be minimal. Manufacturers have simply responded to the market (and the market demand has responded to the supply of the product.)
Why isn't 16g more popular?
- Thread starter Pond James Pond
- Start date
True, but that "minimal" difference MIGHT make a change in the way the gun FEELS. Might not, but could, depending on the gun and the shooter.
There's more to the weight than just what it takes to carry it, there is also the balance of how it handles in the hands, and how it mounts and swings.
Some can't tell any difference, others can.
A pause for the COZ
New member
My Gramps had a Winchester 16 ga. for every day shotgunning and when he wanted to go Goose hunting out came the 12 ga.
He gave that 16ga to my cousin.... He pawned it!!!!
I would give almost anything to have that winchester.
I did get the 12 ga and still have it. Always will.
I still get in fights with Cuz about the 16ga.
He gave that 16ga to my cousin.... He pawned it!!!!
I would give almost anything to have that winchester.
I did get the 12 ga and still have it. Always will.
I still get in fights with Cuz about the 16ga.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I wondered also and did a bit searching in the past.
In various competition rules and laws 12ga is the max bore allowable, so it is the standard b/c it offers a perceived advantage.
With modern manufacturing the slow selling models were sold on the more standard frames. This negated any advantage.
What factory load do you want to shoot out of a 16ga that isn't available in a 12ga?
In various competition rules and laws 12ga is the max bore allowable, so it is the standard b/c it offers a perceived advantage.
With modern manufacturing the slow selling models were sold on the more standard frames. This negated any advantage.
What factory load do you want to shoot out of a 16ga that isn't available in a 12ga?
Quote:
I would never be interested in having a 16 gauge barrel screwed to a shotgun having a 12 gauge frame; truly a neither fish nor fowl proposition.
Quote:
"That is fair enough, being a personal preference but let me put something out there. My own 16g is a light, folding single shot. One incarnation was a 12g.
"Now, mine weighs about 4.5-5lbs. Doubtless my technique could do with some work (I see a new thread coming up!!), but I can tell you shooting a shot shell was "punishing". It was as, if not more, punishing than the 12g semi auto I also shot (which weighs about 7lbs and has the long recoil system to soak up some of the pain)..."
Actually, my aversion to having a 16 gauge barrel mated to a 12 gauge frame has to do with the "out of proportion" scale of the receiver, not the weight of the gun.
I would never be interested in having a 16 gauge barrel screwed to a shotgun having a 12 gauge frame; truly a neither fish nor fowl proposition.
Quote:
"That is fair enough, being a personal preference but let me put something out there. My own 16g is a light, folding single shot. One incarnation was a 12g.
"Now, mine weighs about 4.5-5lbs. Doubtless my technique could do with some work (I see a new thread coming up!!), but I can tell you shooting a shot shell was "punishing". It was as, if not more, punishing than the 12g semi auto I also shot (which weighs about 7lbs and has the long recoil system to soak up some of the pain)..."
Actually, my aversion to having a 16 gauge barrel mated to a 12 gauge frame has to do with the "out of proportion" scale of the receiver, not the weight of the gun.
44 AMP .- You are, of course, correct. Barrel length, butt stock length and the weight of the butt stock wood all affect the weight and balance of a shotgun (probably any long gun.) The type of receiver metal would also effect both weight and balance - my uncle preferred the Ithaca 37 with the aluminum receiver. As a child I could feel the weight difference between his 37 and my dad's 1897, and I really liked the 37.
Creek Henry
New member
The 16's limited shell selection is a limiting factor to me. The 20 3" is more versatile and the guns are just as nice to carry. But, now that we have a 3" 28ga, a 3 1/4 16 may happen LOL.
foolzrushn
New member
I always felt that shell availability ( both buying and borrowing as Lavan pointed out) and cost were the reason for it's decline. You could buy 12's and maybe 20's at every podunk gas station in pheasant or duck season, even on a Sunday.
The .410 suffers the same fate and is not even considered a 'starter' gun very much anymore. Since I only have the full choke .410 that my Dad bought me in my youth, you all will probably discount my opinion.
However even though I always wanted a 20ga, I got good enough with the .410 to beat some 12ga companions to the bird with my .410. I had to beat them or lose the argument about whose shot killed it. And since I pretty much only killed what I would eat, I never understood why you would want any more shot in the meat than necessary. Still don't.
The .410 suffers the same fate and is not even considered a 'starter' gun very much anymore. Since I only have the full choke .410 that my Dad bought me in my youth, you all will probably discount my opinion.
However even though I always wanted a 20ga, I got good enough with the .410 to beat some 12ga companions to the bird with my .410. I had to beat them or lose the argument about whose shot killed it. And since I pretty much only killed what I would eat, I never understood why you would want any more shot in the meat than necessary. Still don't.
QUOTE: "...I always felt that shell availability ( both buying and borrowing as Lavan pointed out) and cost were the reason for it's decline. You could buy 12's and maybe 20's at every podunk gas station in pheasant or duck season, even on a Sunday..."
If the market demand (people wanting it) was sufficient, 16 gauge shells would be found in all the same places 12 and 20 gauge shells are found. Which, again, begs the same question the op posed: "Why isn't the 16 gauge more popular?"
If the market demand (people wanting it) was sufficient, 16 gauge shells would be found in all the same places 12 and 20 gauge shells are found. Which, again, begs the same question the op posed: "Why isn't the 16 gauge more popular?"
Shot from shotguns fly in a three dimensional "cloud". With a .410 the cloud of shot will be thin in places and may even have gaps at shotgun ranges. Considering that, a .410 will produce more misses, and in the case of pheasants, will create hits that will produce injured but not killed birds capable of evading by running away. I learned that the hard way when I used a 20 gauge for pheasants. When it became apparent that the birds were being knocked down and running away, I switched to a 12 and the number of lost birds became less.
foolzrushn
New member
dahermit
No question that a 12ga delivers more shot. But even with a 12, at distance, there will be thin places in the pattern.
I would never wish to waste game unnessarily. I hunted rabbits, doves, pheasants and only occasionally ducks. The rabbits and pheasants would usually wait until you practically stepped on them, to bolt. With doves and ducks I didn't try to take the long shots, so I normally dropped what I shot at. The exception may have been doves....they were a bear to find in a tall field of maize.
You just had to shoot the full choke .410 like it was a rifle, not just point in the general direction of the game. But I was younger then...with better eyes and reflexes.
I don't know why the 16ga wasn't more popular, I never wanted one. I think once a caliber or gauge gets popular with your peers, then people just get the same thing. Double barrels were more common back then, seems to me. I never understood why the 20ga wasn't more popular.
No question that a 12ga delivers more shot. But even with a 12, at distance, there will be thin places in the pattern.
I would never wish to waste game unnessarily. I hunted rabbits, doves, pheasants and only occasionally ducks. The rabbits and pheasants would usually wait until you practically stepped on them, to bolt. With doves and ducks I didn't try to take the long shots, so I normally dropped what I shot at. The exception may have been doves....they were a bear to find in a tall field of maize.
You just had to shoot the full choke .410 like it was a rifle, not just point in the general direction of the game. But I was younger then...with better eyes and reflexes.
I don't know why the 16ga wasn't more popular, I never wanted one. I think once a caliber or gauge gets popular with your peers, then people just get the same thing. Double barrels were more common back then, seems to me. I never understood why the 20ga wasn't more popular.
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foolzrushn
New member
Well, 'pretty darn popular' is subjective. I like 20's and they may be the 'next' most popular to the 12ga.
I doubt the percentage of 20ga owners compared to 12ga owners is very close. It would be nice to see the percentages of all the common gauges though. I suppose it will vary by region.
I doubt the percentage of 20ga owners compared to 12ga owners is very close. It would be nice to see the percentages of all the common gauges though. I suppose it will vary by region.
@dgludwig:
Back in the late 60's or so, Remington had an 870 20 gauge built on a 12 gauge frame. I believe it was created for skeet shooters used to a 12 gauge weight for the 20 gauge class, so as not to change the weight when shooting either class.
I shot a Rem 870 12 gauge Wingmaster at skeet for a few years before I joined the USAF in 1971. Great gun!
When I came home on leave one weekend to Nebraska I was invited to a pheasant hunt, and my Dad graciously allowed me to use his pet Win Model 12 16 gauge 28" tight full choke while he used his Ruger Red Label 12 O/U. I had never shot it before, but it had a light balance that the 870 did not. I killed two pheasants with two shells with it, one at 60+ yards, using 7 1/2 shot, my Dad's favorite.
I know why Winchester quit producing it because it was too costly to manufacture to compete with other guns, but that 16 gauge was a joy to shoot and even to carry.
A 16 gauge will do anything that a 3" 20 gauge will do.
I think its demise is due to the fact that 12's and 20's fill the spots in between.
Too bad for its demise, but the 16 is a great gauge.
I wish I could say the same with a .410. I had a chance once to shoot a Win Model 42 in a round of skeet and I did poorly. I watched the owner do 23 of 25 with it and I was in awe.
If you could do what you said, than I admire your prowess. The last pheasant I killed was with a 16 gauge and the farmers waiting at the end of the field when the bird was viewed by them said it was so shot up that they gladly let me pick out the lead.
Kudos with the .410, sir!
Back in the late 60's or so, Remington had an 870 20 gauge built on a 12 gauge frame. I believe it was created for skeet shooters used to a 12 gauge weight for the 20 gauge class, so as not to change the weight when shooting either class.
I shot a Rem 870 12 gauge Wingmaster at skeet for a few years before I joined the USAF in 1971. Great gun!
When I came home on leave one weekend to Nebraska I was invited to a pheasant hunt, and my Dad graciously allowed me to use his pet Win Model 12 16 gauge 28" tight full choke while he used his Ruger Red Label 12 O/U. I had never shot it before, but it had a light balance that the 870 did not. I killed two pheasants with two shells with it, one at 60+ yards, using 7 1/2 shot, my Dad's favorite.
I know why Winchester quit producing it because it was too costly to manufacture to compete with other guns, but that 16 gauge was a joy to shoot and even to carry.
A 16 gauge will do anything that a 3" 20 gauge will do.
I think its demise is due to the fact that 12's and 20's fill the spots in between.
Too bad for its demise, but the 16 is a great gauge.
I wish I could say the same with a .410. I had a chance once to shoot a Win Model 42 in a round of skeet and I did poorly. I watched the owner do 23 of 25 with it and I was in awe.
If you could do what you said, than I admire your prowess. The last pheasant I killed was with a 16 gauge and the farmers waiting at the end of the field when the bird was viewed by them said it was so shot up that they gladly let me pick out the lead.
Kudos with the .410, sir!
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QUOTE: "...Well, 'pretty darn popular' is subjective."
Well, no. "Pretty darn popular" in the context of the twenty gauge means a lot of people like them. And if they like them, they buy a lot of them. And if a lot of people buy a lot of 20 gauge shells/guns it makes the twenty pretty darn popular, an objective term if there ever was one when one counts the relatively large number of shells/guns actually being sold, as opposed to the lesser popularity of every other gauge being sold-excepting the 12 gauge as previously noted.
Well, no. "Pretty darn popular" in the context of the twenty gauge means a lot of people like them. And if they like them, they buy a lot of them. And if a lot of people buy a lot of 20 gauge shells/guns it makes the twenty pretty darn popular, an objective term if there ever was one when one counts the relatively large number of shells/guns actually being sold, as opposed to the lesser popularity of every other gauge being sold-excepting the 12 gauge as previously noted.
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foolzrushn
New member
With me, the 20ga would be more popular than the 12ga. It's easier to handle and carry all day. If the sales were equal to the 12, the shells should be cheaper. Less shot in the meat. Lots of reasons. I'd probably like a 20 double. Gotta give the birds a chance. Went quail hunting with the full choke .410 once. Got one but chewed it up pretty bad. Not good.
I think the 'bigger is better' mentality got the 12 where it is, and the pain threshold kept the 10ga from being king with folks of that attitude. I saw very few 16ga guns in the hunting groups that I was in. And I saw even fewer 10ga 'goose guns'. That seemed to be what the few 10s were mostly used for in the Central Flyway.
I don't know about competition shooting classes/gauges, so if there is one for 20ga maybe that has helped make them more popular. My experience was just hunting, and I don't know if my peers were typical.
I would be interesting to see a percentage for each gauge. Maybe the shell manufacturers would have figures, but that really wouldn't be correct for the ratio of number of guns. The more popular gauges would use more shells by far.
What types of game are in Estonia James?
I think the 'bigger is better' mentality got the 12 where it is, and the pain threshold kept the 10ga from being king with folks of that attitude. I saw very few 16ga guns in the hunting groups that I was in. And I saw even fewer 10ga 'goose guns'. That seemed to be what the few 10s were mostly used for in the Central Flyway.
I don't know about competition shooting classes/gauges, so if there is one for 20ga maybe that has helped make them more popular. My experience was just hunting, and I don't know if my peers were typical.
I would be interesting to see a percentage for each gauge. Maybe the shell manufacturers would have figures, but that really wouldn't be correct for the ratio of number of guns. The more popular gauges would use more shells by far.
What types of game are in Estonia James?