Why is the shotgun (seemingly) fading in police circles?

the main reason is that cops want to be Assault troops. Assault troops don't use shotguns, they use MP5 sub guns and full auto ARs. Thats what the cops use now. They just can't seem to spray enough bullets these days.
 
Also keep in mind that buck shot doesn't have the penetration that a rifle has. What if a cop encounters some one with body armor? It's not that hard to get! The answer - a rifle.
Check out this link
Ballistics Test

Notice what a 7.69x39 or 5.56 do.
Notice what 00 buckshot or slugs do.
 
Beat cops as you put it are the heart of Law enforcement.

The street cop is the 'Man', and they are the work horse of the industry, I have more respect for beat cops (as you put it) then all the rest put together. Patrol is where the action is and it is pretty busy in a big city believe me.

The only other real deal are your Metro types. Crime suppression is the key and that means rock and roll.
Shotguns on humans as a rule are very deadly and you just don't shoot them in crowded areas (one of there problems in some situations).
Full autos??? Seen to many movie's or tv.
Roy and Mannlicher (interesting handle Mann).

Full auto is not the most desireable. Semi auto well placed is the key. I will take a 12 gauge over the rifle for most police work. The rifle is not as needed as a good shotgun, with the high mag capacity in the handguns and if you are a good shot its plenty. IMHO...

When I was growing up Hopalong Cassidy was one of the good guy's, he used to tell people. Policeman or Deputy was the right thing to call officers, not cop, it is like using a derogatory term, unless you are a cop and then it is your right to say it if you want.

Go to a copper's bar and start using that term and see what it gets you. LOL

Kinda like the N word, get it.

Harley
 
At close range, there is not another weapon in existence that is more effective than a shotgun loaded with buckshot.

I think that the shotgun has decreased in popularity due to lack of training (or lack of physique) and political correctness.

My two cents...
 
Policeman are called "cop" these days because everyone knows Andy Griffith is the exception, and Tackleberry is the rule.
 
Perception and, what was mentioned earlier, television conditioning. Shotguns aren't "cool" anymore. They're not slick. You can imagine yourself walking into a crowd of bad guys and leveling your automatic and mowing them down while your badge gleams on your jacket in the neon light. Then you get to say some smart ass comment and drop your magazine and slap in another one and go after more bad guys. Shotguns and revolvers are SOOOO spaghetti western country hick. Police, politicians, and the public are slaves to the media machine just like the rest of us. But in my observations, it seems that the old timers on the local force appreciate a good 870 more so than the younger members.

My wife and I go to our local range. We bring my Glock 23 and my Winchester 1300 Defender. She rents medium/large framed .357 revolvers because she likes their simplicity, weight, and the fact that she can use .38 rounds and not feel the recoil very much. We are currently trying to find one that "fits" her the best. We plunk rounds down range with the handguns just like everyone else, but when the Defender comes out, it gets the most attention....even from the local Marines from Camp Pendleton. Can't argue with the destructive power of 12 ga. 00 buckshot in skilled hands.
 
recoil

No one has mentioned www.knoxx.com and their new recoil reducing stocks. I am ordering a Specops for my Mossy Marine.
Remington is now buying their stocks for the 870.
Check their movie downloads- interesting!
 
I too think the SG is the best Urban Defense Weapon available--LE argues, however, that body armor has begun to preclude its effectiveness. .223 will penetrate BA but slugs/Buck will not. That being said, how many bad guys wear body armor?

-Cheers
 
I am an LE, and I am stilla fan of the 870. I dont have an AR, dont really have a need for one.

With Buck, the SG will end any fight to 20 yards. With GOOD slugs, I am confident to 150 yds. Slugs may not penetrate a vest, but I can guarantee the fight will be over if someone is hit square in the chest with one.

The 870 can sit in a rack in a Crown Vic for 10 years without maintenance, and chances are, it will work in th einstant you need it to. The *70 cost me ~400 bucks built..can't get much of an AR for that.

Not to mention the Chink-Chink sound and its psychological effects.


Of course, Im a little weird for my generation. You dont find many 25 year old cops switching to a 1911 for a duty gun, and would feel just fine carrying a wheelgun.

The guns used are simply tools. The weapon is in between the ears.
 
lilisdad.... wow. i thought all cops had turned into terminators. thank you for making me believe at least a little bit. i hit it off with my sheriff up in colorado the first time i met him. the first words i said were, "boy, you don't see many tom threepersons these days." he smiled and said, "you're that boy from texas aren't you." i said "yes sir". he said, "i understand you have some lawman experience". i said, "yes sir", and he gave me a job on the spot. my name is ge&h and i carry a 1911 or a wheelgun. nice to meet you.
 
You got to think of current events in policing. Remember that massive shootout in LA with those two bankrobbers wearing body armor and carrying AK-47s. Handguns and Shotguns were not effective in that situation, and I think that is where the big push for having AR-15 instead of shotguns in cruisers comes from. Now I'm a big shotgun lover, but honestly why does a police officer need to pull out a 8 round 12 gauge pump shotgun from his trunk when he/she has a 15 to 20 round 9mm or .40 on their hip? Cops already have short range sidearms, why carry yet another short range weapon in the vehicle, if needed they should have some sort of long range weapon in the trunk. I think you will still see shotguns used by police to breech locked doors and to shoot non-lethal rounds. Sorry guys, shotguns eventually will go the way of the .38 wheelgun
 
It has been an incremental act.

First there were handguns...and in a bad situation a shotgun might be included.

Then Handguns and shotguns were generally issued

Then they added the patrol rifle...often in the trunk...just for special situations.

And someone said...whay all three...what does the shotgun do that the PR does not...the answer was....not a lot.

Police...(and everyone else) are responsible for every round expended.

With the shotgun(using buck)...as range increases...the pattern opens up and it becomes more of an area weapon. with slugs, or at close range, you get one large hole but placement is seldom perfect

With a carbine, I can place all my shots in a palm sized group...with a shotgun I can keep slugs on an ipsc target but I give up the precision that a carbine gives me. And with OObuck, I cannot guarantee all the pellets will strike the target.

I run drills with multiple targets and I can get three head shots with a carbine about as fast as three body hits with buckshot.

The ergonomics are simply better with the carbine...and with the addition of an optic.....even with the most basic of training first round hits are simply more likely...and as the range increases the carbine wins hands down.

In short....leaving out specialty uses like breaching and LessLethal rounds

The carbine simply fills a larger hole in the escalation of force.

It can be used at extrememly close range just as effectively as a shotgun

And it performs better as the range opens up

So...rather than have a handgun ....and a shotgun ....and a rifle

We eliminate the shotgun
 
In teh famous "Hollywood Shootout (Bank Robbery)", how many shotguns were available to the LEO's on scene? Why were they running to Gun Shops to "borrow" rifles? Where was the "stopping power" of the SG in this shootout? As the range increases, the effectiveness decreases in the SG. Since the BG's in this incident were armed with AK's they were able to keep the LEO's at a fair distance. Time for a good rifle (and more aiming at the head).
 
I Am Surprised

The attitude that many of you have towards patrol officers carrying anything but short range weapons is surprising. Many of you seem to think its Kosher.
 
The rifle can never substitute the shotgun.
The shotgun can never substitute the rifle.

There is more than enough room to carry both in any police car.

So what is the problem with carrying both??
 
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