Why Is It
- Thread starter hogcowboy
- Start date
aarondhgraham
New member
They were already badmouthing the guns,,,
You just didn't notice until you owned one.
Aarond
You just didn't notice until you owned one.
Aarond
You buy the gun you like. . .not what someone else likes.
If it works well for you, great. If not, you buy something else and try again.
This process is called gaining experience. Once you know it all, you are probably too old to go out to the range.
Get the last word by living longer than your critics. . .it really harshes their mellow.
Geetarman
If it works well for you, great. If not, you buy something else and try again.
This process is called gaining experience. Once you know it all, you are probably too old to go out to the range.
Get the last word by living longer than your critics. . .it really harshes their mellow.
Geetarman
If you only buy products that have no negative reviews or critics on the internet you'll end up using a sharpened stick for self-defense.
The key is being able to distinguish between the normal issues that are unavoidable with human designed and manufactured products and the issues that result from a company that isn't dedicated to putting out a quality product that satisfies customers.
Once you can do that you're in good shape. Even if you do happen to get a particular firearm that turns out to be problematic, you will be able to get relief from the maker because you bought from a company that cares about keeping their customers happy.
The key is being able to distinguish between the normal issues that are unavoidable with human designed and manufactured products and the issues that result from a company that isn't dedicated to putting out a quality product that satisfies customers.
Once you can do that you're in good shape. Even if you do happen to get a particular firearm that turns out to be problematic, you will be able to get relief from the maker because you bought from a company that cares about keeping their customers happy.
I have been very happy with my DW CBOB. It is accurate, comfortable to shoot, and so far it has fed everything I have fed it.
If it makes you feel better, I have had one problem with it: with the factory magazines, the slide often fails to lock back after the last round is fired. I bought some Wilson Combat magazines, and that problem disappeared.
So now you have heard an actual complaint about a Dan Wesson, from somebody who recommends the pistol anyway.
If it makes you feel better, I have had one problem with it: with the factory magazines, the slide often fails to lock back after the last round is fired. I bought some Wilson Combat magazines, and that problem disappeared.
So now you have heard an actual complaint about a Dan Wesson, from somebody who recommends the pistol anyway.
orionengnr
New member
I've owned one Taurus, which worked fine...unfortunately, at the same time I also owned to it's S&W equivalent (which cost 2X as much). It was readily apparent why the Taurus was priced as it was. Although my experience with that one was positive, I no longer own it, and have no great desire to own another. From what I read, I got lucky.
As far as Kimber goes, between me and the wife, we have had eight total. Still have five of them. Every one worked perfectly, and I am carrying one as I type this. I don't consider eight in a row to be an aberration, but I understand that others may have had different experiences. Maybe I got lucky with Kimber too.
On the other hand, I read a lot of bad stuff about Kel-Tec, but ended up buying four of them in total. Never had one that worked correctly, and not for a lack of trying...maybe I got unlucky with K-T...or maybe I should have believed what I read and steered clear.
Okay, DW. I bought a lightly used (600 round) 10mm CBOB last July, and I'm still trying to get it to work correctly. It's one thing after another. Get one malfunction resolved, and another rears it's head. If I didn't have so much money in it (and replacement parts, 10mm brass and dies, etc....) and I were not so fascinated by the 10mm, I'd have bailed on it a long time ago. After spending some time on a certain 1911 forum (I use the same user id there, and a number of my posts were deleted, but a few remain), I find that I am not alone, although I was nearly banned from that forum for discussing my difficulties...I got most of my help through pms from members who had similar experieces. There are many satisfied DW owners, and if you buy one, I hope you are one of them. As beautifully as the DW 1911 is built, I will not buy another. It's like having a beautiful wife who not only cheats on you, but flaunts it as well.
As far as Kimber goes, between me and the wife, we have had eight total. Still have five of them. Every one worked perfectly, and I am carrying one as I type this. I don't consider eight in a row to be an aberration, but I understand that others may have had different experiences. Maybe I got lucky with Kimber too.
On the other hand, I read a lot of bad stuff about Kel-Tec, but ended up buying four of them in total. Never had one that worked correctly, and not for a lack of trying...maybe I got unlucky with K-T...or maybe I should have believed what I read and steered clear.
Okay, DW. I bought a lightly used (600 round) 10mm CBOB last July, and I'm still trying to get it to work correctly. It's one thing after another. Get one malfunction resolved, and another rears it's head. If I didn't have so much money in it (and replacement parts, 10mm brass and dies, etc....) and I were not so fascinated by the 10mm, I'd have bailed on it a long time ago. After spending some time on a certain 1911 forum (I use the same user id there, and a number of my posts were deleted, but a few remain), I find that I am not alone, although I was nearly banned from that forum for discussing my difficulties...I got most of my help through pms from members who had similar experieces. There are many satisfied DW owners, and if you buy one, I hope you are one of them. As beautifully as the DW 1911 is built, I will not buy another. It's like having a beautiful wife who not only cheats on you, but flaunts it as well.
You will learn more on the user's forum than a general forum
My opinion is that when people get agitated about brand issues - it's often about ego.
Before 2003 I owned Buicks. My last Buick was a Skyhawk. At 20,000 the thermostat needed to be replaced, at 35,000 the water pump went out on it. At 42,000 the alternator died. At 67,000 it needed a new starter. And it just got worse from there... one day while driving it just blew a rod. 82,000 RIP. Every time I took it into the shop I felt like I was getting robbed, and I also felt stupid for buying a Skyhawk. I felt like my purchase decision reflected on me personally. In 2003 I bought a Toyota. And deep inside I really really wanted this car to be trouble-free, because then it affirms that I made a good purchase decision. Not only did I do something right, but it shows that I am smart and wise and make good decisions and I feel good about the whole thing. When I was on car talk forums, I found myself promoting the model and the brand and defending it, and I realize now, it was more about me wanting to feel good about my purchase decision and wanting to feel good about myself and less about the actual car. I have been very very happy with my Toyota. I am only one Toyota owner of millions, but I can say for myself that I went over 100,000 miles last month and I have never had one single problem with this vehicle.
Unless someone works for a particular firearms manufacturer, when I see them vociferously defending a brand, my opinion is that they're really defending themselves.
No one likes to face the prospect that they made a bad purchasing decision or what that says about them. No one likes to have their judgment called into question, and I think that leads to about 75% of the emotion behind either the brand bashing or the fanatical defense or promotion of brands.
If someone purchased brand XYZ and it stove pipes every 50 rounds, it's easier to chalk it up as still braking in versus hassling with the gun shop or manufacturer and /or admitting that you made a bad decision with this particular brand. And if someone says that the brand has quality issues - it hits a nerve with the person who owns that brand and you hear them defending it, but really it's being generated by their own anxiety about plunking down $800.00 for something that doesn't work. They are really defending themselves - they are saying "I'm not dumb for spending $800.00 on this brand - I'm smart, I'm right and you're wrong and here's why"
I think people tend to defend their "brand" more on general forums like this and less on the brand-specific user's forum. If someone buys a Calico Liberty pistol and talks abut it here and someone says it's junk - they might defend it rather than tell people what's really going on. But in a forum of all Calico users - they are all willing to be honest with whatever problems thay are having.
On this forum you'll read a lot from Kahr users about how it is flawless. On the Kahrtalk forum you'll read posts, one Kahr user to another about any problems or frustrations they are having with their pistol. The same thing is true for Rohrbaugh, Taurus or any other pistol.
I think on a general forum like this you can post a question and all of a sudden you've stirred up the brand haters and the fanboys and it becomes Hatfields and McCoys. On the brand-specific forum you don't get that.
Here are a few Dan Wesson groups/forums/links:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/danwesson/
http://www.danwessonforum.com/forum
http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52
My opinion is that when people get agitated about brand issues - it's often about ego.
Before 2003 I owned Buicks. My last Buick was a Skyhawk. At 20,000 the thermostat needed to be replaced, at 35,000 the water pump went out on it. At 42,000 the alternator died. At 67,000 it needed a new starter. And it just got worse from there... one day while driving it just blew a rod. 82,000 RIP. Every time I took it into the shop I felt like I was getting robbed, and I also felt stupid for buying a Skyhawk. I felt like my purchase decision reflected on me personally. In 2003 I bought a Toyota. And deep inside I really really wanted this car to be trouble-free, because then it affirms that I made a good purchase decision. Not only did I do something right, but it shows that I am smart and wise and make good decisions and I feel good about the whole thing. When I was on car talk forums, I found myself promoting the model and the brand and defending it, and I realize now, it was more about me wanting to feel good about my purchase decision and wanting to feel good about myself and less about the actual car. I have been very very happy with my Toyota. I am only one Toyota owner of millions, but I can say for myself that I went over 100,000 miles last month and I have never had one single problem with this vehicle.
Unless someone works for a particular firearms manufacturer, when I see them vociferously defending a brand, my opinion is that they're really defending themselves.
No one likes to face the prospect that they made a bad purchasing decision or what that says about them. No one likes to have their judgment called into question, and I think that leads to about 75% of the emotion behind either the brand bashing or the fanatical defense or promotion of brands.
If someone purchased brand XYZ and it stove pipes every 50 rounds, it's easier to chalk it up as still braking in versus hassling with the gun shop or manufacturer and /or admitting that you made a bad decision with this particular brand. And if someone says that the brand has quality issues - it hits a nerve with the person who owns that brand and you hear them defending it, but really it's being generated by their own anxiety about plunking down $800.00 for something that doesn't work. They are really defending themselves - they are saying "I'm not dumb for spending $800.00 on this brand - I'm smart, I'm right and you're wrong and here's why"
I think people tend to defend their "brand" more on general forums like this and less on the brand-specific user's forum. If someone buys a Calico Liberty pistol and talks abut it here and someone says it's junk - they might defend it rather than tell people what's really going on. But in a forum of all Calico users - they are all willing to be honest with whatever problems thay are having.
On this forum you'll read a lot from Kahr users about how it is flawless. On the Kahrtalk forum you'll read posts, one Kahr user to another about any problems or frustrations they are having with their pistol. The same thing is true for Rohrbaugh, Taurus or any other pistol.
I think on a general forum like this you can post a question and all of a sudden you've stirred up the brand haters and the fanboys and it becomes Hatfields and McCoys. On the brand-specific forum you don't get that.
Here are a few Dan Wesson groups/forums/links:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/danwesson/
http://www.danwessonforum.com/forum
http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52
Crazy Carl
New member
I've got 2 Dan Wessons, a CBOB & a PM-7. Both are very accurate, have great triggers & feed anything I run through 'em. Never had a hiccup.
Built very tight, but not finicky at all. I clean 'em maybe every 300-400 rds or so & don't bother to lube 'em between cleanings. They just work & work well.
Built very tight, but not finicky at all. I clean 'em maybe every 300-400 rds or so & don't bother to lube 'em between cleanings. They just work & work well.
chrislind2
New member
Revolvers?
I personally have never had a single problem with a revolver. And I have owned Ruger .44 magnums and .22's of all types and many .38 specials,
.357's of all types and a .45 long colt. Less to go wrong of course.
I own a Taurus PT145 .45 auto and it is accurate and fun to shoot. I have fired at least 1200 rounds through it with no problems at all. So I bought a Taurus 709 Slim 9mm. First 150 rounds with no problem, but it put a strange dent in the end of the brass, so it went to Taurus for repair. When it came back I fired 150 more rounds through it. They replaced the slide assembly and now it jams 3-4 times with every magazine. I am using the exact same ammo as before. I guess one problem is I have a large collection of pistols and you are more likely to discover problems when you buy so many different brands. I have had "glitches", but this Taurus is driving me crazy! I will give it another chance as soon as I have time to get it back to the range.
There are so many possible things to go wrong with a semi-auto...that's why my daughter will never own one again. She is a revolver or nothing person.
My search for the "perfect weapon" has left me frustrated and disappointed. It doesn't exist, so we have to settle for "it goes bang" a higher percentage of the time than my other guns!
Guns ARE a lot like women, but when they are in my safe, (the guns) I don't have to see them or even think about them not to mention hear them!
I personally have never had a single problem with a revolver. And I have owned Ruger .44 magnums and .22's of all types and many .38 specials,
.357's of all types and a .45 long colt. Less to go wrong of course.
I own a Taurus PT145 .45 auto and it is accurate and fun to shoot. I have fired at least 1200 rounds through it with no problems at all. So I bought a Taurus 709 Slim 9mm. First 150 rounds with no problem, but it put a strange dent in the end of the brass, so it went to Taurus for repair. When it came back I fired 150 more rounds through it. They replaced the slide assembly and now it jams 3-4 times with every magazine. I am using the exact same ammo as before. I guess one problem is I have a large collection of pistols and you are more likely to discover problems when you buy so many different brands. I have had "glitches", but this Taurus is driving me crazy! I will give it another chance as soon as I have time to get it back to the range.
There are so many possible things to go wrong with a semi-auto...that's why my daughter will never own one again. She is a revolver or nothing person.
My search for the "perfect weapon" has left me frustrated and disappointed. It doesn't exist, so we have to settle for "it goes bang" a higher percentage of the time than my other guns!
Guns ARE a lot like women, but when they are in my safe, (the guns) I don't have to see them or even think about them not to mention hear them!
ice monkey
New member
I dated a paramedic once – it was weird, all of a sudden I started to see ambulances everywhere.
ice monkey
New member
Oh I get it ... It's really quite funny! Just remember - your way more likely to post if your unhappy than if you are happy about something - You know?
I've worked a very large gun store in NM for about 4 years now. I don't recall ever seeing a Kimber come back for repair, especially with the Kimber bashing that goes on on the Internet. We have more Taurus pistols and revolvers returned for being defective than anything that we sell. It seems to affect all of their product line also.
We had a sale price on the Taurus TCP .380 autos a while back. We had one lady who bought one, took it to the range to shoot it, and the bullet wouldn't even go into the barrel! It went back to the factory without even one bullet going down the tube.
Most handguns we sell are usually very good for quality. I do not recall any Glocks, HK's, Sigs (with the exception of Mosquitos and P250s), Springfields, or Berettas ever coming back. Of course, you can always get a lemon, but that could be attributed to almost anything mechanical.
I personally carry all HK pistols. I've never had a problem with any of them, but one may break tomorrow. You just never know.
We had a sale price on the Taurus TCP .380 autos a while back. We had one lady who bought one, took it to the range to shoot it, and the bullet wouldn't even go into the barrel! It went back to the factory without even one bullet going down the tube.
Most handguns we sell are usually very good for quality. I do not recall any Glocks, HK's, Sigs (with the exception of Mosquitos and P250s), Springfields, or Berettas ever coming back. Of course, you can always get a lemon, but that could be attributed to almost anything mechanical.
I personally carry all HK pistols. I've never had a problem with any of them, but one may break tomorrow. You just never know.
hk45ctp30, you bring up another interesting point:
Opinions of gun dealers on the reliability of guns may be greatly impacted if those dealers have ranges at their shops.
A couple friends of mine who have complained about certain brands had (in one case) and still has (in the second case) an attached range. Buyers would pick up their new gun, walk over to the range, and return with immediate problems, particularly with one brand that shall remain nameless for now.
A dealer who does not have a range may sell the gun and never hear about it again, depending on where the buyer shoots, whether the buyer contacts the manufacturer directly, and whether the buyer has a preferred gunsmith at a different location. (Also depends on how far the buyer lives from the dealer; in many cases it may be easier to ship the gun directly to the manufacturer, and leave the dealer out of it entirely.)
Opinions of gun dealers on the reliability of guns may be greatly impacted if those dealers have ranges at their shops.
A couple friends of mine who have complained about certain brands had (in one case) and still has (in the second case) an attached range. Buyers would pick up their new gun, walk over to the range, and return with immediate problems, particularly with one brand that shall remain nameless for now.
A dealer who does not have a range may sell the gun and never hear about it again, depending on where the buyer shoots, whether the buyer contacts the manufacturer directly, and whether the buyer has a preferred gunsmith at a different location. (Also depends on how far the buyer lives from the dealer; in many cases it may be easier to ship the gun directly to the manufacturer, and leave the dealer out of it entirely.)