Why is it that the 1911 is so much popular as a platform than the Hi Power?

N

Norman Bates

New member
This is a totally uneducated question, but regardless of the basic .45ACP round, the Browning P35 is a latter development so why is it that it has not become such a definitive platform unlike his older sister?

NB:(
 
I think you are asking us to disregard the main reason. Caliber

Also the 1911 is available in sizes to suit every need.
 
Good question. I'm interested to see the answers myself. But let me take a stab at a couple of reasons that I think might be possible explanations:

1) It wasn't officially adopted by the US Armed Forces, so it doesn't have the of the 'clout' that goes along with that.

2) It isn't chambered in a caliber that is perceived to be more effective. Note the use of the word perceived.

3) It was not completely designed by Browning, so it's pedigree is suspect among collectors.

4) Because of the above contributing factors, it does not have the wealth of aftermarket accessories, making it less desirable as a customizable platform.

Hope I'm on the mark with some of these.
 
I'm not sure that the basic assumption is correct. But if the question is "Why are there so many more companies making after market and upgrade parts for the 1911?". I would answer, because the HiPower is so much closer to perfection;)
 
The 1911 is more popular? In America maybe; but around the globe the Hi-Power is more commonly encountered. I think the difference for that is that the 1911 was the military issue sidearm for many years and that's the semiauto most people are comfortable with.
 
While some of these observations are quite on the mark, I suspect there might be something else, something more definitive... something that might all of us agree and say : Ahhh! Yes, of course!!!

As a platform, the caliber question does not apply, it could be made to chamber almost anything.

The Armed forces argument could be also discualified if you consider the rest of the world where the Hi Power is still one of the most popular and CURRENT sidearms with military and LE.

Also considered as a platform and a "modern" one at that (hi capacity, double stack, no grip safety, etc). My guess is should have probably inherited the place that the 1911 has today.

I'm very interested will all your comments, the one of the P35 not being completely a Browning design is very interesting but still you'd have to be more that a purist to discard such a fine gun for that reason.

NB
 
Gee, it seems that there are almost as many BHP clones as 1911.
FN licensed everyone but Mattel to make em. Just done years ago and not as well remembered.
Also Browning did not DISCONTINUE the HP while they were licensing everywhere.
I have both. I like the BHP best. Simpler. BUT it DOES need a trigger job to be decent.
 
Norm, not to pick at nits, but:

As a platform, the caliber question does not apply, it could be made to chamber almost anything.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's not. The 'natural', or 'traditional' caliber for the HP is 9. I don't think this is about what the gun could be, it's a question aboutt what it is.


The Armed forces argument could be also discualified if you consider the rest of the world...
Click to expand...
Yeah, but we're not. I'll bet Berettas mean more to Italians, Walthers and Mausers mean more to Germans... the cache in the US market is attributable to a 'soft spot' in our hearts for the 1911 because of the US armed forces. Although you do raise a good point. I'd be interested to know what the sales data look like for 1911 and HP in the global aggregate.


P35 not being completely a Browning design is very interesting but still you'd have to be more that a purist to discard such a fine gun for that reason.
Click to expand...
Well, I wouldn't say it's a matter of 'discarded' so much as not as popular. I intend to get one for my collection some day, too, but my first gun was a Kimber 1911. I also don't think you need to be a 'purist' to have a reverence for Browning's work, and appreciation for the prestige of owning a gun that is 100% of its legacy, rather than 50% of its legacy. In the knife world, a blade made by Bob Terzuola commands more prestige than a collaboration made by Spyderco.

Norman, you have some good counter points, though. I'm curious to hear what you think the lack of popularity is?
 
American market is huge compared to the rest of the world.

Jillions of G I. s introduced to handguns via 1911.

America has for over a century liked larger calibers, and many Europeans restricted to lesser calibers.

Both work well. 1911 works better with smaller hands.

Sam
 
A few years ago I read that the HP was the world's most produced, reproduced, and copied pistol. Come to think of it, I recall hearing and/or reading that more than once.

Whether or not it still is I cannot say. I'd venture that it may be, given its global popularity among military and police forces. Either way, it is firmly in the top tiers of popularity. Pretty good, regardless of caliber or pedigree.

The HP is usually (always?) included on lists of the "best" pistols ever produced. Pretty good, once again.

So why isn't the HP frequently customized?

In the States at least, the HP's popularity both as an out of the box and customized platform is eclipsed by the venerable 1911. I'd venture a guess that it has less to do with the HP's perceived weaknesses and more to do with the 1911's perceived strengths.

For many folks, if they are going to lay down relatively big bucks for a custom job, they want it done on "the best." Right or wrong, that means the 1911 to justy about everyone in the shooting community.

All that said, I'd love a customized HP. It is high on my "some day" list.
 
To be sure, the perceived caliber effectivity helps the 1911 a lot (ie, the "1 shot stopping" debate , etc tends to relegate the 9mm in general as a "defensive" cartridge to second tier). But look also at the USPSA/IPSC rules and major power required the .45, or a suped up .38 super (and this was before the 40 S&W of course). Given these points, and the ones made above about americans familiarity through military service, ammo choices, etc, it's just so much more established here with accessories, customization etc. I have both, shot both extensively, and will carry and use the BHP (personal preference, fits my hand like a glove, shoots straight with well manageable recoil). Both are first class designs and reliable handguns I'd bet my life on (which I did with the 1911 while in the service, and I do now with the BHP as home/personal carry). Buy at least 1 of each !!:D
 
The primary advantage of a BHP is simpler design (fewer parts) which should yield higher reliability assuming those parts are well-made and properly fitted. In recent years, that last assumption has not been consistently met.

The advantages of a typical out-of-the-box 1911 over a HP are endless:

1) MUCH smoother trigger

2) Usually better made and fitted

3) Infinite supply of parts to upgrade if desired

4) Better basic accuracy and can easily be upgraded to match grade

5) Larger size gives better feel and balance. The HP is actually a "semi-compact" in that the grip is about 3/4" shorter than a typical full-size auto. The average man's hand fits a full size grip better.

6) High volume production of 1911's has led to manufacturing improvements yielding "match-grade" pistols for prices as low as about $800.... which means you get a gun that shoots like $1500 for half that cost.
 
Well, i just read that during the 60's Herstal licensed the Japanese to manufacture the BHP and those guns were dissed by the american public.

Then, they started production in Argentina during the '80s.

That kind of references might have also seriously affect the P-35 popularity.

NB
 
BHP vs. M1911

There are those who say, "The BHP fixed everything wrong with the M1911. The CZ75 fixed everything wrong with the BHP." As the CZ is 25 years old, you could go on....
 
ONLY ONE REASON TO PREFER 1911

I believe the 1911 platform is better for shooting for more different people; they shoot it better.

(IPSC shooters will do ANYTHING to gain advantage; if HP was better it'd be winning.......)
 
1. The caliber question is germane, and it favors the 1911.

2. The military issued the 1911 for decades, and it proved itself time and time again in the field. Not to say that the BHP would have performed similarly for our GI's, but the plain fact of the matter is that when a sidearm was reached for it was a 1911. (Until that awful mistake with the Beretta's but that's a different thread. :D) That carries a LOT of weight with a LOT of people.
 
WESHOOT2
(IPSC shooters will do ANYTHING to gain advantage; if HP was better it'd be winning.......)
Click to expand...

Except that the HP was offered in a major caliber until 1994 - and its pretty tough to do well in IPSC shooting minor.

However, I do think you hit on one aspect of the 1911 that the Hi-Power will never be able to compete with and that's the trigger. Only the 1911 has such a great combination of a good, crisp single-action trigger and a short-reset.

With a little work you can get a good Hi-Power trigger; but you'll still have some take-up and you'll always have a longer reset than the 1911.

bountyh - I'd have to disagree with points 2,4,5,6. I believe an "out-of-the-box" Hi-Power will easily best your typical 1911 in accuracy, fit & finish, and reliability - unless you are comparing it to "Production Custom Out-of-the-Box" like Kimber, in which case, the Hi-Power still wins on price, durability and relability and is equally competitive on accuracy and fit&finish.
 
To lay aside quality issues which some people have brought up (clones etc.), suppose we compare apples to apples:

A Belgian Browning HP vs. a Colt Goverment Model Blue Steel (not a 1991).

Belgian Browning HP:
Disadvantages: The HP has a grip like a 2X4, a trigger that is hard to like, a funky small safety lever, hard to tear down in field, and a fairly anemic cartridge.

Advantages: HP has a 13 shot magazine, (maybe) no grip safety.

Colt Government Model Blue Steel:

Disadvantages: 7 round magazine; (maybe) grip safety.

Advantages: Colt has relatively thinner grip. Good single action trigger. Positive thumb safety. Easy to tear down in field. A fairly robust cartridge.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top