Why is carrying reloaded ammo for SD, a bad idea?

If the shooting is justified, I doubt that any prosecutor would worry about the type of ammo. I would think that the ammo, gun, and other issues would be more important in the (now inevitable) civil suit, where the rules are not as stringent.

"And this evil man, not trusting to factory ammunition to produce the pools of blood he wanted to wallow in, crouched in his basement in the dark of the night, brewing up his own vicious, deadly, evil ammunition, meant only to kill."

Throw in the race issue if applicable, and it is not hard to see where that is going.

Jim
 
Nate, I appreciate your comment. :)

Personally, I think the only reason it doesn't come up more is that so few handloads are ever used in actual shootings.

Cordially,
Mas
 
I think at the end of the day if it's a "good" shoot it's probably not going to be a huge issue. But, in a "bad" shoot it will be another bone of contention. For what it's worth I think it is unwise not to use factory rounds for SD. But, let your conscience be your guide.
 
low power

load your rounds below max power.
Midway between starting and max.
Then when asked state you bought the bullets and powder that were for sale
and assembled them as listed. Make sure you own a manual for the same bullet you carry. supena manual editor to state manual was not written to create extra deadly evil loads.
 
The biggie IMO is that there's really no significant added expense incurred by using only factory ammo for self-defense. One could easily duplicate the recoil of a chosen self-defense load with practice handloads so the only added expense is for the ammo used to verify the load is reliable in one's gun and the rounds that actually end up getting loaded into the pistol/spare mags. We're talking about the cost of maybe 300 rounds of factory ammo vs the cost of a similar amount of reloaded ammo amortised over a lifetime.

So you have to weigh the small chance that it will be an issue (associated with a significantly negative outcome) against the small cost of following the recommendation.

Those of us carrying a gun in self-defense are all basically preparing against an event that has a small chance of occurring but that is associated with a significantly negative outcome. Given that is the case it's kind of hard to argue against the recommendation, IMO.
 
The biggie IMO is that there's really no significant added expense incurred by using only factory ammo for self-defense. One could easily duplicate the recoil of a chosen self-defense load with practice handloads so the only added expense is for the ammo used to verify the load is reliable in one's gun and the rounds that actually end up getting loaded into the pistol/spare mags. We're talking about the cost of maybe 300 rounds of factory ammo vs the cost of a similar amount of reloaded ammo amortised over a lifetime.
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Bingo! And that takes care of the extreme cost argument.

If you want to put up the argument that all factory ammo is unreliable and that your handloads are supreme ammunition that will never fail, then you can take my earlier recommendation and break down, then re-assemble your own defense ammo from new, factory components pulled down straight from a couple boxes of defense ammo.

FWIW, I've been handloading since the summer of 1989. I carry Winchester factory ammo in my carry gun.
 
Hmmm, maybe if I were to carry my LSWC reloads for SD, any DA would be hard pressed to compare them to one of many factory SD loads on the market today (Critical Defense, etc.). With the (advertised) mushrooming of these factory SD loads ripping through a BG, how could any reload be any more deadly?:confused:
Regards,
SN
 
If you use the same ammo as the local cops carry, even if in a different caliber, ammo becomes a bit of non-issue in court.
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you'd think so but I was on one local case where a DA tried to turn that into "So Mr. Smith, are you trying to be a police officer?"

The other attorney shut that line down FAST but the simple point is that the prosecutor will try whatever he/she thinks will work to break you down.

I think (just my opinion here) that the really important thing is to carry what you trust. If there ever is (maker forbid) an incident you may have to answer questions afterwords, but make sure there IS an "afterwords".

Also as Sevens said... FWIW I use handloads for practice and carry Winchester SXT.
 
Somewhat related-- I cringe at the idea that a prosecutor would ask me about reloading and using such an angle against me... but I get downright scared when I think about a prosecutor asking me, in front of a jury of regular old average folks who may or may not own a firearm, just how many different handguns I have in my safe.

We all know that normal, every day, meet at the store or at church or on a date or through friends folks who don't shoot or didn't grow up shooting would have their eyeballs pop completely out of their sockets if someone told them that some guy they don't know at all has a 700 pound gun safe with 15 or more different firearms in it. Or that I have fifteen pounds of smokeless powder in my cache. Or that I keep an average of ten thousand primers near my load bench, or, well, fill in the blank.

We are enthusiasts, it's our hobby and/or lifestyle. To folks who aren't gun people, it immediately comes off as entirely irrational. There was a poster in here for whom one of his hobby was wristwatch collecting. I think he must have had some 30 or 40 watches, some of them going for $2,000 each, some of them for $15,000 each or more, I'm not really sure. When you think of why anyone would need 30 or 40 watches, you think, "well that's odd, but he must like watches!" But when you think of NON-gun people finding out that some guy on a defendants stand in a criminal death trial has a couple dozen firearms, you think of the lead story on the 6 o'clock news that uses a 10-second sound byte to paint a picture of a domestic terrorist that keeps piles of deadly weapons, makes his own ammo, and has enough hardware in his home to wage a war with.

Non-gun people (and even some occasional gun people who aren't enthusiasts) could easily be led to thinking that you must simply be some kind of crazy gun nut ready to take a building hostage and set up a war zone to take on the entire local SWAT team.
 
Somewhat related-- I cringe at the idea that a prosecutor would ask me about reloading and using such an angle against me... but I get downright scared when I think about a prosecutor asking me, in front of a jury of regular old average folks who may or may not own a firearm, just how many different handguns I have in my safe.
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That is my "biggest" fear as well.

IF, the prosecutor is going to pull out all the stops, then I imagine anything goes. I'd be willing to bet the style of holster you carry, could come into play. I believe that ammo would be a hard sell. I'm sure the judicial system in your area comes into play as well. If the bullet is within SAMMI specs, what is the problem?

Couldn't loads like Double Tap ore Buffalo Bore be misconstrued as "overkill"
 
Factory stuff

I was involved with LE for 32 years and never have I heard of a DA worrying about what kind of ammo was used.If it was a good shoot,or a bad shoot,the case was judged on it's merits.Reloaded ammo is sold left and right in many gun stores and gun shows.I have stuff bought 40 years ago.I can't even remember where I bought it.However,if you attack me,some of that stuff may be used to stop the bad guy.
Let me ask this,if a nut case decided to run over a crowd of people with his 4X4 F250,do you think the DA gives a rats ass what king of fuel the truck was running on?I too will never worry about legal ramifications of reloaded ammo until I see an actual cast.Until that time,the issue is in the same folder as Bigfoot and the Loc Ness Monster.
 
Nate, while you say it appears to you that he may have murdered his wife, it didn't appear that way to the cops until the gunshot residue from the handloads didn't match that tested with factory loads bearing the same headstamp as the reloaded brass, in the crime lab.
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Why would this matter? Are you telling me that the big ammo companies actually keep track of the type powder they put in their ammunition, and, the courts actually believe them?

That gets so far into never never land that it's scary.
 
Hi, Soc --

Yes, the major ammo companies keep scrupulous records of what goes into each lot of ammo. They have to, for at least a couple of reasons. One is their own liability exposure if someone claims their ammo blew up an expensive firearm and perhaps caused an injury. Another is that crime labs regularly need exemplars of certain lots of ammunition to test for gunshot residue to determine distance at which a shot might have been fired.

Since the ammo manufacturer is seen as an uninvolved third party with no motivation to lie, their records and samples can routinely be expected to be entered into evidence if this factor becomes an issue. That's not true for the private citizen and his loading records, since he is seen as the accused, who DOES have a reason to fabricate false evidence.
 
I think we are talking about two differant cases here. Criminal and Civil.

If its a ligit shooting we can narrow it down to one case. Before that happens, we have a coronors inquest to determine if a crime was commeted by the shooter or not. This will depend a lot on your state laws regarding self defence.

Assuming the shooting is ruled ligit, ( I wont deul on the criminal cases, let the tv cop shows handle that). So I'll limit my comments on the civil aspect.

When a bandit gets shot, he of course a bad guy, home invasion, car jacking, trying to steal your grandaughter, what ever, he get shot because he's a bad guy. Coronor inquest clears you, and the DA has no case so he's out of the picture.

So here comes the civil case, the bandit is no longer a bandit, he's the scout leader, chior boy, and all around super nice guy. This is where the lawyer comes in. The Chior boys lawyer is gonnna do everything posible to make you look bad. He's gonna deal more then just re-loads, but everything to cloud the issue (which also takes time which means more money to him and your lawyer). Besides the ammo you use, you're gonna have to convince him you didnt go wacko because of your military training (regardless of what it was), you're traffic record when you were a kid. What evil zombie killing groups you belong to , like the NRA, Turkey and Elk foundations, etc etc. The internet is great, run some of the topics you were part of through google and see if your name or nic comes up.

Any thing to cloud the issue. We's all seen it before, not just in shooting cases but traffic accidents and everything else. Thats why most departments, when an officer is involved in a shooting settle these cases out of court, not because the officer is wrong, but its often cheaper to settle up then fight the case. Lawyers are after billing hours, if the Bandit (now chior boys) lawyer can drag it out, he bills more hours, as does your lawyer who has to fight it. Lots of incient people are destroyed because of these BS lawsuits.

So take you pick, its not just ammo or gun you use, its about everything in your life. You can roll over hide in a bubble for fight it. No one can make that choice for you.

There is another option. The State of Wyoming is a bit independant, run buy a bunch of old ranchers and oil men who refuse to give up their guns and cave to the bs. Our Castle doc. has a clause, if the shooting is ligit, then YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM CIVIL LAW SUITS. Of Course you can sue anyone for anything, and its possible to sue you anyway to see if you come under Wyomings NO Civil Suit Rule. Our legislator saw that senario also, So if you are sued anyway, after it being ruled a ligit shooting. The State Flips the bill for the suit.

My sugestion is, to google Wyoming gun laws, take a copy of our Castle doc. to your State legislators and demand a simular provision in added to your laws.

Folks I've seen this, as I said, not just with guns, in my LE career I've been classified as Firearms expert (CSI Instructor) , Traffic Accident Reconstructionest, and Explosive expert, (EOD). Its not just firearms and shooting you have to deal with, its just about everything in your life.

The place to fight this is before you are involed in a shooting, through your legislator. We talk of Sheep Wolves and Sheepdogs, but dont let those terms be restricted to firearms. Be a sheepdog in everything you do.
 
Hi Mas

Always wondered how some of those ammo companies make high recoil ammunition? Anyway to get a list of what powders they are using, so you know what to expect?

Don't think I'll be trusting my life to Remington ammo anytime soon...
 
Are you telling me that the big ammo companies actually keep track of the type powder they put in their ammunition, and, the courts actually believe them?
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Yes. You will find a lot number on each box of ammo, and that type of powder, bullet, etc. is recorded for that lot.
Regarding the issue at hand, folks, it is real simple...how much money do you want to spend? Won't always occur, but it does enough that I like to point it out. Attorneys try to prepare for things. You may have heard that a lawyer never wants to ask a question when he doesn't already know the answer. Therefore anything out of the norm requires research. Relaoded ammo is not a norm, thus it needs more research. The attorney is going to hire somebody like Mas, or like me. And he is then going to pay A LOT of money for our opinions on reloaded ammo, what were the standards, what info can we get, etc. NOT because it will come up in court and will determine the course of the trial, but because it might come up and it might be an important issue to one or more jurors. It can be a part of the criminal case it is more likely to be a civil case, but it can certainly pop up. And if it does he has to have a response.
 
Actually, it's really area dependent. Know your DA, your state laws, your police chief, and your situation. I have a couple guns the only thing I put in them is reloads, since ammo is either non-existent, or absurdly expensive.

Are they the first guns I grab? No.
 
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