Why is America such a violent place?

K

Konstantin

New member
Why are America such a violent place?

I have thought a lot about it: Why are America so violent? I know that it is wrong to say something like that about such a enormous country. But you cant deny the facts: The murder rates, assault rates etc is higher than in Europe. Much higher in some places. Why is it like this?

Sure we have problems with criminality, but not as big as the US. Only the state of California has more prisoners than France, Great Britain, Germany, Japan, Singapore and Holland.

I have heard from my parents, that in the 50:s and the early 60:s, there were often only one murder in a summer here in Sweden, and because of that, it got huge publicity. Today, we got murders every week, or maybe every day, and no one cares about it anymore.

Sure Sweden has never been a paradise as some people claim, but we had it much better before than today. The recent 50 years, this society has gotten more and more violent.

But it seems to me like that the US has always been a violent place, with high criminality and many murders. Or am I wrong?

The reason to the high crime rate seems to be that so many people are poor. With other words: the big difference among the classes. But is that really enough to explain it? What is the reason to why Americans statistically kill, murder, rob etc more often than Europeans?
 
leuthen

What do you mean? What I am saying is totally wrong? I know that there is a huge difference between the different places. A small town in the middle Kansas may have very low crime rate, while places like Watts in LA has a very high crime rate...
 
Konstantin, it's true. For overall violent crime, the US ranks 17th (if I recall correctly), while the UK is in the top five. We have more murders than other countries, but nearly all of those murders are criminal-on-criminal. Take the gang-bangers and drug dealers out of the equation and our homicide rate is about the same as any other Western country.

Drugs are a much bigger business in the US than in other countries, and the competition between dealers is fierce.
 
In the other countries that you mentioned, there have been a stable population, demographically, than in the United States. In the US, you have the clashing of ethnicities and cultures, and that sometimes leads to violence and murder.

Switzerland and the US are pretty much in parity as far as gun ownership, but the murder rate in Switzerland is not as high. Switzerland also has a more stringent immigration policy where potential immigrants have to prove that they will not be a burden to the country, and once you are, you are deported. Deportation Order from Switzerland.

In the US, all you need is a few boxcutters, and money for flight school, and you are in the country. :mad:
 
Hard to beat Europe for sheer # of deaths

Well, let's be fair and take into account all the deaths from government intervention that the fine folks in Europe have on their hands.

Between the civilians systematically murdered by governments in WW II and the Pogrims under the Soviets it runs easily into the 10 million plus range. I'm not sure that even Sara Brady thinks we kill that many over here.

Suicide rate, per capita, is hiogher in Japan and several of the Scandanavian countries too, I believe.

The other point, already mentioned, is we are one of the few countries with a wide open, as in no government controlled, press. In spite of the tinfoil hat crowd, around here if it happens you usually hear about it. Waco and Ruby Ridge were nopt swept under the rug as they might have been. They didn't get the prime time air play they deserved but they aren't a secret.

I'm not sure the same can be said for all the European or Asian nations and ceratinly not for the middle Eastern or African governemnts with a controlled press.

I guess I'm questioning your opening assumption, that America is such a violent place.

Boy, that makes a lot of people pretty stupid for sneaking across our borders every day to make a life for themselves in such a violent country huh? I haven't heard of a massive immigration from Ohio, Kansas or even New Jersey to live in Europe because its inherently safer and a good place to give your children a better life.

Don P.
 
Poverty and crime are often correlated, but you cannot say that poverty causes crime.

Many of my relatives grew up in poor rural areas where crime was all but unheard of. Many relatively affluent parts of California are plagued by violent asian gangs.

The fact is, except for people trapped in some inner city areas - and often these people are trapped in welfare and that lifestyle, most people, if they choose to, can live in extremely safe areas.

I think that a lot of our problems are due to the welfare sub culture. Kids raised without fathers, people with no hope turn to using and selling drugs - kids seek out gangs as a proxy for the nuclear family.

I have lived in some areas that were low in come in Sacramento and while mundane crime was higher, there were not shootouts and mayhem that I remember.
 
Konstantin:

For the vast majority of us, I'd say there's very little violence in the US. While I do carry, it's more a prudent insurance measure than
a need.

We have our "underclass", as I'm sure you do, and that's where you'll find the violence concentrated. And, for one reason or another, these people are concentrated in major cities.

Well, forced residence in any city is reason enough for violence, in my eyes, to escape, if nothing else...

Still, look first at the "government" supplied support, money, food, lodging, etc., before you head off on your usual class thing.
Then look at the TV's, cars, microwaves, computers, phones, and so forth of the US "poor".
Too, before you hit the medical insurance thing, realize that anyone reporting to a hospital here must be treated, insurance or not.

I'll miss the Eurotrolls, but only because I've been there, for an extended residence in Germany, and it's good to be reminded of just how much better life is here.
 
With all due respect, Konstantin, I just have to wonder why you Europeans keep dropping in with the same question?

If you have been "lurking" (I don't mean that in a bad way) around here for a few weeks you would or could have read one of several long threads posing this same question, and being answered with the same or similar statistics.

Do you all think the answers will change if the question is asked often enough?
 
In Britian they are letting first time burlulars out without jail time. Just because people are not in jail does not mean there isn't crime. Gun Controlled germany had the Bader Minhof gang. Red Brigades and Mafia in Italy. Ireland? Britian subway bombings?
You've been reading " the press," that's why.
 
Maybe you could supply some stats?
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Sure.

Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and Wales, 1981-96
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cjusew96.pdf

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/search97cgi/s97_cgi


Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Countries

http://www.minjust.nl/b_organ/wodc/publicaties/rapporten/pubrapp/ob187.htm


Between the civilians systematically murdered by governments in WW II and the Pogrims under the Soviets it runs easily into the 10 million plus range. I'm not sure that even Sara Brady thinks we kill that many over here.
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It is more around 30 millions deaths in WWII.
 
Violent? Here? Well, crime is a matter of keeping statistics and how we classify a crime affects those statistics. Furthermore, the better the reporting system, the higher the crime. It's also a matter of perception. What may be violent to one person is a proverbial walk in the park for another. But, N.Y. Central Park at 2 a.m. is different from the park in Vincennes, Indiana.

OK, we do have crime and gang shootings. But that happens in gun free England too. We have armed robberies. But so do the Netherlands (or was it Denmark) where three thieves used a submachinegun to rob an art museum (Van Gogh must go!) and for a getaway, they used a speedboat. Recall the hijacking of a Russian Bus of Olympic Shooters. The first bus got stopped at gunpoint and the second bus stopped a short distance away. The Olympians got out and started loading their gear. The crooks saw who they were dealing with and the exercised the better part of discretion. Violent? Let's ask the Turks who are living in Germany. Seem to recall folks in their teens and early twenties chanting, "Auschlanders, auschlanders, auschlanders Aus!" and there being some beatings of Turks in Germany.

Glad the news over there makes us look very unsafe. Hopefully it discourages emmigration.
 
Monkeyleg

Agree that you might be right. Sure that the UK have more crimes than the US, but do Europe in common have more crimes?

To be more exact: I am taking about WESTERN europe. Not the undeveloped east.

The list you read where they listed overall voilent crimes, is it for the entire world? If it were, it would not suprise me if countries like Afghanistan and Kongo where on the top.
 
Frohickey

So you mean that it is the culture differences that creates all the criminality?

I thought it was very hard to get into America legal, but am I wrong? Dont you have to prove that you have a work waiting for you in the US and so on to get in?
 
DonP

Between the civilians systematically murdered by governments in WW II and the Pogrims under the Soviets it runs easily into the 10 million plus range. I'm not sure that even Sara Brady thinks we kill that many over here.
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I was talking about crimes by the people, not murder by government. American always take Nazi Germany and the USSR as example how bad we Europeans are... To be honest, I dont consider Russia as a part of Europe, and not Turkey either.

Suicide rate, per capita, is hiogher in Japan and several of the Scandanavian countries too, I believe.
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Live all your life in a country where it is dark most of the year and see how you would take it! :) No, to be honest, I think the reason to why so many people take their own lifes in Scandinavia is because of the cold climate and all the dark. The reason to why they take their own lifes in Japan must be because they work so hard, or?

I'm not sure the same can be said for all the European or Asian nations and ceratinly not for the middle Eastern or African governemnts with a controlled press.
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No, but most, if not all, the Western Europan nations.


Boy, that makes a lot of people pretty stupid for sneaking across our borders every day to make a life for themselves in such a violent country huh? I haven't heard of a massive immigration from Ohio, Kansas or even New Jersey to live in Europe because its inherently safer and a good place to give your children a better life.
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Americans often take this example when they are critizied: "Why do people come here if we are so bad?" The reason to why most people come to you are because you are the richest nation on earth, you are one of the worlds best democracies etc etc. The immigrants for South America gets into a more safe society, but maybe not the Swiss immigrants... If there are any...
 
Pendragon

Yes I agree to you that it is wrong to say that poverty have to lead to criminality....

I think that a lot of our problems are due to the welfare sub culture. Kids raised without fathers, people with no hope turn to using and selling drugs - kids seek out gangs as a proxy for the nuclear family.
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These kind of problems exist Europe, but not as much as it seem to do in America. Do anyone have an idea to why it is so? I dont have the answer....
 
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