Why have there been no new handgun designs in almost a hundred years?

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FUD

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I've been thinking :eek: Keeping this on VERY SIMPLE terms, it appears to me that there have been no MAJOR new gun designs introduced for the past 100 years or so. Before, people jump all over me with examples, let me explain what I mean ...

First there was the single shot flintlock type of handgun. A major improvement/advancement over that desin was the revolver where multiple bullets could be stored in a cylinder -- significantly different from the flintlock handgun that came before it. I don't consider double action to be a MAJOR design change because it's an IMPROVEMENT on the original revolver design. Double action was a major feature/improvement but still built on the same design.

Next came the auto where bullets were fed from a magazine. Again, a major DESIGN change from the revolver. SA, DA. DAO, etc., are improvements for sure, but they're still built on the same design.

Revolvers & pistols have been our only two handgun choices for the past 100 years or so. Does anyone think that someday within our lifetime a new type of handgun design will be introduced? I'm not talking about lasers or any sci-fi stuff but a regular gun that shoots regular bullets but is different in design from either the pistol or revolver?
FUD
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Because we're still using metallic cartridge technology, which hasn't changed in roughly 150 years.



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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Does anyone remember the GyroJet? Didn't work worth dookie, from what I recall, but it was a try at something new back in the '70s.
 
Good post. I think the biggest improvements have been double stack autos, polymer and other lightweight frames, and laser sights.

While I've seen lots of stuff in the movies, I think the next big jump will be something to the effect of a muzzleloader(surprisingly enough). I think we will see an end to cartridges as we know them. I feel the guns of the future will contain bullets and gunpowder (loosely speaking), and will inject the gunpowder behind the bullet, in effect using the chamber as a casing. I think the need for primers will be replaced by an ignition system of some sort. This (without the 10 round limit) would multiply the capacity of a standard sized handgun severalfold. It would also vitiate the need for casings (probably the most expensive and wasteful portions of bullets).
 
Caseless ammo and electric firing pins were the last big thing, they just didn't catch on.
There were two military prototypes built to use caseless ammo. Neither worked well in real field conditions, so the idea was put on the back burner. Remmington revised it for hunting trying to get the civilian market into the idea.
 
one idea may be in the form of using liquid/gas propellent stored in the gun much like a CO2 pellet gun set up. ignition will be electronic and projectiles loaded and carried in circular or strip plastic holders looking much like the LOUD caps in kids guns today.
lectric ignition makes a light/or varible trigger a breeze to set up. liquid/gas propellent is stable and efficent (witness the tater guns).
the simple fact remains that handguns, much like musical instruments may have reached a point of refinement that can not be passed without a revolution in materials or power sources. such concepts as the energy pulse weapon (phaser), neural damping field weapons, sonic pulse weapons and the hand held lazer weapon requires an energy source that now is to heavy to be practical. what we really need is a weapon that is totally selective, adjustable from lethal to knock out to stun and light and small enough to be carried like the handguns we have now. something tells me when we reach for the stars it may still be a good .45 or a compact .40 that will kick alien butt.

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
So JM Browning is the unexceled genius of cartridge firing guns?

There is no other new way to control, feed, & fire a cartridge than the 100 year old machine designs we have?

We have new materials but the same old designs

Maybe the Calico or the FN p90 magazines are a new direction...

Given the legal restrictions that we are checked by, perhaps 200 year old designs will be what civilians have in 2100 (if they know where to dig)

;)

dZ
 
Every technology reaches a stable point. Marginal improvements may be made, but eventually things really don't change anymore. The katana is an example in previous weaponry: slight changes are still being made, but the changes are very marginal compared to the ideal form of the weapon itself. A new technology may appear and revolutionize things (laser blasters, anyone?) but until then, we're pretty much stuck with what seems to be the ideal form of a handgun, aside from marginal improvements like polymers, double stack, night sights, etc.

One possible improvement I've wondered about:
Consider where the bullet is in a handgun when chambered...it's pretty far forward. This results from pushing the round forward out of the magazine and into the barrel. What if...during slide movement, the barrel itself moved forward, a round popped straight up from the magazine, and the barrel slid back and around the new round. This motion could add maybe another inch to barrel length without changing the overall length of the gun. Thoughts?
 
One problem with Gyro Jet was that the projectile was a rocket, slow at close range and faster with distance. Worthless at very close range. Lot of fun tho, and easy to make your own for shootin in the house.

Sound gun is viable. A Britt got busted a few years ago for screwin up race horses with one that was hidden inside a home video camera.

Plasma discharge takes huge power supply but may well be good anti-tank weapon someday. So far 900gr bullet at 26,000ft/sec not too shabby. Million lbs of muzzle energy.

sam
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrewh:
Caseless ammo and electric firing pins were the last big thing, they just didn't catch on.
There were two military prototypes built to use caseless ammo. Neither worked well in real field conditions, so the idea was put on the back burner. Remmington revised it for hunting trying to get the civilian market into the idea.
[/quote]

I believe the gatlings on F-15s other US Military jets are all Electrically primered.
 
Electric primer ignition has been around, with metallic cartridges, since the 1890s, I believe.

In workable, military form, since the 1930s. I believe the German MG 151 20mm cannon had the primer electrically fired, with many thousands of them being manufactured.

DZ, helical-feed magazines have been around since the Evans rifle in the 1880s. Held 16 or 24 rounds in a helix magazine in the buttstock.

Certainly is not a new idea.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Certainly is an interesting subject allright.
I like the idea of fuel injection for a gun with electronic ignition. I think the reason that there hasn't been any real gains in technology is that there hasn't been a pressing need. But should the day come when we really need it I'm sure someone will come up with something. Necessity is the mother of invention. Who knows. All that star wars stuff might become reality someday. Jules Vern wrote about travel under the sea long before it was feasible. One never knows.

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***Torpedo***
It's a good life if you can survive it!
 
I suppose that is true, most inovations in weaponry were due to an upcoming war that everyone knew would happen, or just after a war that allowed developing tech to continue.
 
The "blow forward" idea where the barrel moves forward under recoil has already been done. There was a company that marketed a .45 auto about twenty years ago that used this principle. I can't remember the name though.

Naturally the gyrojet was scooped by the Germans during WWII. I believe the round it fired was called the AUPO or something like that.
 
They have nail guns (for construction) that use a fuel cell and electric ignition, they are pretty cool, no hoses to deal with. I would imagine that you could use similar technology to propel a small lead projectile rather than a 16 penny framing nail. It would work better for a rifle than a pistol since there probably has to be a fairly big expansion chamber/piston. Still would be fun though. Have a linked chain of 100's of small rounds in a drum magazine and a small tank of butane forming the stock like a paintball gun.
 
Now, this may sound a little trekkie.

I believe the key to "New Technology Weapons" is not so much in "gun design" as "type of ammunition". Consider this:
A zip file (as you probable already know) is a compressed device used to store large amounts of data until it is needed, at which time it is expanded for use. Picture the Magazine as the "zip file" and the "ammunition" as the compressed data which is expanded for use as needed, i.e., when the slide cycles exposing the top of the magazine(file) to air thus causing the expansion effect.

The archaic thing about our present day personal weapons systems is the materials used to produce a cartridge.
 
My $.02 worth.

Someone else said it; as long as we're dealing with cartridges, we're not going to see any truly new designs. While there may be "more than one way to skin a cat," there aren't unlimited ways.
I predict that the next true revolution in firearms will grow not out of firearms technology, but rather out of electronic energy storage/generation technology. If someone could come up with a battery the size of a standard 9V containing the equivalent electrical power of a full day's output by a major generator, then it's possible we could see beam weapons. Until then, however, we're going to be stuck with trying to reinvent the wheel.

"There is nothing new under the sun."

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
Hi, guys,

Blow forward pistols were tried a century ago by Schwarzlose and others. The complications of stripping a round from the magazine from the front were just part of the reason they never became successful. But if you find a blow-forward pistol, buy it if you can - they are big buck collectibles.

Most of the other ideas have also been tried in one form or another. Daisy tried caseless .22 ammunition, and S&W made a version of their Model 76 SMG for a caseless 9mm round. There have also been experiments in Europe with up to 20mm. Aside from breech sealing, one problem is durability of the ammo itself. One can beat conventional ammo around without hurting it, but a cartridge that breaks if dropped or subjected to feeding stress is not much good.

The gas injection idea is good, also, but so far no dice on a gas powerful enough and portable enough to be practical. Even though an internal combustion engine is very similar to a gun with a captive projectile, the amount of gasoline that can be put in a conventional chamber won't propel anything very far.

There were two major problems with the Gyrojet. The first was that it was not accurate, mostly because the ammunition could not be made accurately enough. The other was that the rocket-type round achieved energy by building up speed after it left the barrel; a round fired in contact with or very close to the target just sat and fizzed.

As for other ideas, add the circa 1960 vintage Dardick gun, a sort of magazine fed revolver using triangular cartridge cases. In spite of the inventor's enthusiasm, it provided no real advantages over a conventional pistol.

Jim
 
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