Why get a 20 gauge?
- Thread starter Dave McC
- Start date
Denny Hansen
Staff Emeritus
Thanks, Dave. Good read.
I agree with you completly on the .410. I'd add that while some espouse it as a gun for beginners, IMO it's a caliber for the true expert.
Denny
I agree with you completly on the .410. I'd add that while some espouse it as a gun for beginners, IMO it's a caliber for the true expert.
Denny
K77,I've Brenneked a few deer with a 20 gauge. If there's any difference in effect, I didn't see it. Some other 20 gauge slugs have left longer blood trails even with good placement, but still allowed fast recovery.
Denny,if the 410 wasn't an authorized skeet classification, it would have died out a long time ago. I cringe every time I see this guy on a hunting show espouse a 410 for quail. He keeps some good dogs busy finding cripples and the marginally hit, I'd wager.
Most of the small bore fans I know love the 20 and 28,but are not fond of the 410 in any form.
A better shotgun starter load is the 28 gauge, or using a loader to produce 28 gauge level ballistics, like I did with Son's little NEF. 3/4 oz of shot has little kick but will bust small birds and clays nicely at fairly close ranges.
And, one of the remaining mysteries of shotgun arcana is how come the 28 gauge wacks and stacks much better than the stats predict.
Denny,if the 410 wasn't an authorized skeet classification, it would have died out a long time ago. I cringe every time I see this guy on a hunting show espouse a 410 for quail. He keeps some good dogs busy finding cripples and the marginally hit, I'd wager.
Most of the small bore fans I know love the 20 and 28,but are not fond of the 410 in any form.
A better shotgun starter load is the 28 gauge, or using a loader to produce 28 gauge level ballistics, like I did with Son's little NEF. 3/4 oz of shot has little kick but will bust small birds and clays nicely at fairly close ranges.
And, one of the remaining mysteries of shotgun arcana is how come the 28 gauge wacks and stacks much better than the stats predict.
ok, maybe I've been brainwashed from early on.
At age 12 I bought my first gun - a 20 gauge bolt action Mossberg which can take 3" shells.
I still have it.
I've been dead on accurate on running rabbits with it.
Shooting the 20 is "FUN".
A 12 gauge is more work.
And a 10 gauge is more yet.
Like I said, I was warped from early on.
Then I warped myself from the other end.
The 10 gauge is also "fun" -- if I can forget the cost of ammo.
Shucks, if I'm gonna go for effect then I may as well shoot 10 gauge.
(I wonder if the guys at the trap range would welcome my 10.)
At age 12 I bought my first gun - a 20 gauge bolt action Mossberg which can take 3" shells.
I still have it.
I've been dead on accurate on running rabbits with it.
Shooting the 20 is "FUN".
A 12 gauge is more work.
And a 10 gauge is more yet.
Like I said, I was warped from early on.
Then I warped myself from the other end.
The 10 gauge is also "fun" -- if I can forget the cost of ammo.
Shucks, if I'm gonna go for effect then I may as well shoot 10 gauge.
(I wonder if the guys at the trap range would welcome my 10.)
Shooting any gauge is fun, Solitar. And BTW, good to see you here again.
My little experience with either a 10 or a 28 has been a classic hoot.
One acquaitance has a 10 Gauge Fox. He shoots an occasional round of trap with it and some light handloads. It works for him.
In days of yore, many dedicated wingshooters never owned a 12 gauge. They'd have a 10 or 8 gauge for waterfowl and a 16 or 20 for the uplands.
My little experience with either a 10 or a 28 has been a classic hoot.
One acquaitance has a 10 Gauge Fox. He shoots an occasional round of trap with it and some light handloads. It works for him.
In days of yore, many dedicated wingshooters never owned a 12 gauge. They'd have a 10 or 8 gauge for waterfowl and a 16 or 20 for the uplands.
Thanks Dave.
Methinks people are trying to stretch the 12 gauge to do everything that used to be covered by the 28 gauge to 10 or 8 gauge spread. Thus we have short shells from Aguila, "tactical" low-recoil loads and then on the top end the heaviest 3 1/2" 12 gauge which tries to do the job of a 10 gauge.
This is like trying to use the .223 for shooting rabbits or squirrels AND using it to shoot northern whitetails or elk. It may be just too much of a spread.
Nevertheless, it has become a lot easier to cover a wide range with a 12 gauge than with a centerfire rifle. But folks who are proficient on either end of the scale do have an advantage because their shotgun is matched better to the game.
Methinks people are trying to stretch the 12 gauge to do everything that used to be covered by the 28 gauge to 10 or 8 gauge spread. Thus we have short shells from Aguila, "tactical" low-recoil loads and then on the top end the heaviest 3 1/2" 12 gauge which tries to do the job of a 10 gauge.
This is like trying to use the .223 for shooting rabbits or squirrels AND using it to shoot northern whitetails or elk. It may be just too much of a spread.
Nevertheless, it has become a lot easier to cover a wide range with a 12 gauge than with a centerfire rifle. But folks who are proficient on either end of the scale do have an advantage because their shotgun is matched better to the game.
You're very welcome, Solitar. The All Purpose 12 Gauge Myth doth pervade all Shotgunnia. The fact that a proper waterfowler will run 8 lbs plus whereas most upland hunters go for shotguns weighing less than 7 does stand in the way of a beautiful theory, but that's life...
And, like most myths, a kernel of truth is in it.
A decent shot with a heavy 12 will not be far behind a decent shot with a 10 in a goose blind, and a nice little upland 12 with an oz of shot is way better for most folks than a strained oz from the smaller 20.
I use Frankenstein for both, but freely admit a heavy and longer version would be better for waterfowl, and a few oz lighter in the uplands, but we're talking compromise here. Frank thumps heavy with goose loads and carries heavy in quail and woodcock habitat.So be it, I still like it.
I'd love a 6 1/2 lb,12 gauge 870 for the uplands. Second choice, an Ithaca 37.
As for the NEED for a 3 1/2" 12, I'm still skeptical....
And, like most myths, a kernel of truth is in it.
A decent shot with a heavy 12 will not be far behind a decent shot with a 10 in a goose blind, and a nice little upland 12 with an oz of shot is way better for most folks than a strained oz from the smaller 20.
I use Frankenstein for both, but freely admit a heavy and longer version would be better for waterfowl, and a few oz lighter in the uplands, but we're talking compromise here. Frank thumps heavy with goose loads and carries heavy in quail and woodcock habitat.So be it, I still like it.
I'd love a 6 1/2 lb,12 gauge 870 for the uplands. Second choice, an Ithaca 37.
As for the NEED for a 3 1/2" 12, I'm still skeptical....
The word "why" does not apply to guns.
But since some of us may more rationalization for "why" a 20 gauge.
1) Cause we already have a 12 and the 20 is the next most popular.
2) Cause a 20 is just part of a complete set (410, 28, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8)
3) Cause we have some 20 gauge shells and need a gun to use 'em in.
4) Cause we just might want to teach some smaller person shotgunning.
But since some of us may more rationalization for "why" a 20 gauge.
1) Cause we already have a 12 and the 20 is the next most popular.
2) Cause a 20 is just part of a complete set (410, 28, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8)
3) Cause we have some 20 gauge shells and need a gun to use 'em in.
4) Cause we just might want to teach some smaller person shotgunning.
I love a 20 for most all my shotguning "needs" - kinda got trapped back into 'em when starting off a son & The Wife (both about 5' & 100lbs at the time).
BTW, dfaugh, my Dad too in the tail-end of 17s although he was winning $$s before with his 870 before he "graduated" to 50s.
Can't argue with any of the thoughts on 20s. I prefer to carry 'em in-field for 90% of the bird hunting I do, but did have to mod the stock on one of our 870 Youths due to my 6'5" frame - a tad short on the LOP & had to shim the stock downward for a proper sight picture. Surely wasn't a "fault" of a 20, more the Youth model.
Nice l'il handy package those 20s. Now to find a local source for some 20 Brennekes to round out that package .... that IS a hint.
Onliest thing I could bitch about 20s (if that) is the scarcity of offerings relative to that of the 12s. I did pick up several boxes of 1-1/4oz #2s & 4s (turkey loads which pattern quite nicely when you pick your choke - nice duck load, BTW - if only ...
) & most everything else is covered for woodland game, but I've found locally, not much in the way of buck or slugs.
BTW, dfaugh, my Dad too in the tail-end of 17s although he was winning $$s before with his 870 before he "graduated" to 50s.
Can't argue with any of the thoughts on 20s. I prefer to carry 'em in-field for 90% of the bird hunting I do, but did have to mod the stock on one of our 870 Youths due to my 6'5" frame - a tad short on the LOP & had to shim the stock downward for a proper sight picture. Surely wasn't a "fault" of a 20, more the Youth model.
Nice l'il handy package those 20s. Now to find a local source for some 20 Brennekes to round out that package .... that IS a hint.
Onliest thing I could bitch about 20s (if that) is the scarcity of offerings relative to that of the 12s. I did pick up several boxes of 1-1/4oz #2s & 4s (turkey loads which pattern quite nicely when you pick your choke - nice duck load, BTW - if only ...
) & most everything else is covered for woodland game, but I've found locally, not much in the way of buck or slugs.Labgrade, you fingered one drawback to the 20, a minor one.
With all the research into producing 12 gauge target loads and the zillions of same sold every year, the 20 has no common equivalent of the AA Heavy Trap load, one outstanding performer in the uplands.
There's plenty of field loads, but these do not have shot as hard nor round as the premium stuff.
There's definitely less variety in buck and slugs. I've not seen 20 gauge buck other than #3, and the selection of slgus is less than half the 12 gauge choices.
OTOH,the Rottweil Brennekes (marked Dynamit Nobel) are great deer loads, and among the most accurate in the few 20s I've tested them in. They're found in most gun shops and chain stores here.
HTH....
With all the research into producing 12 gauge target loads and the zillions of same sold every year, the 20 has no common equivalent of the AA Heavy Trap load, one outstanding performer in the uplands.
There's plenty of field loads, but these do not have shot as hard nor round as the premium stuff.
There's definitely less variety in buck and slugs. I've not seen 20 gauge buck other than #3, and the selection of slgus is less than half the 12 gauge choices.
OTOH,the Rottweil Brennekes (marked Dynamit Nobel) are great deer loads, and among the most accurate in the few 20s I've tested them in. They're found in most gun shops and chain stores here.
HTH....
Dagny, yes but...
The 20 gauge YE here weighs a hair less than 7 lbs, and Frankenstein a hair more in its present incarnation. The 20 kicks harder with a 7/8 oz load(tho not painfully hard) than Frank with a 1 oz. This has more to do with stock dimensions than weight or load, IMO.
1 oz 20 gauge loads kick MUCH harder,more than 1 1/4 oz 12 gauge ringneck whackers do in Frank.
Of course, this is subjective, and is but one example.
And through reloading, I can tailor a 12 gauge load down to 28 gauge levels, like a 3/4 oz creampuff.
But if there's not that much logic in a 20, shotgunning is not all logical. Shoot what you want...
The 20 gauge YE here weighs a hair less than 7 lbs, and Frankenstein a hair more in its present incarnation. The 20 kicks harder with a 7/8 oz load(tho not painfully hard) than Frank with a 1 oz. This has more to do with stock dimensions than weight or load, IMO.
1 oz 20 gauge loads kick MUCH harder,more than 1 1/4 oz 12 gauge ringneck whackers do in Frank.
Of course, this is subjective, and is but one example.
And through reloading, I can tailor a 12 gauge load down to 28 gauge levels, like a 3/4 oz creampuff.
But if there's not that much logic in a 20, shotgunning is not all logical. Shoot what you want...
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I'd say, & hugely subjective (YE 870) kicks harder than any equivalent 12 loading, & would agree that it's probably fit more than anything else (& weight, if you throw in physics). I buy off-the-shelf & have only ever "fitted" one shotgun & that was the mentioned 20 youth stock shimming. Other than that, they fit "good enough."
A 20's great to carry 'round the field just because of the lighter weight & handier package + they'll do 90% of a 12, all told. Maybe more, as I wouldn't be totin' around my 20 for turkey or waterfowl anyway .... you pick the tool for the game.
Far as recoil, it seems to get lost somewhere in the "thrill" of the shot (to me anyways). I don't shoot competition, & actual live game is somewhat spotty - here 'n there = no biggie, so it really never comes into play regards the constant "pounding," if that. & really, what's the limit for the game afoot? 20 for doves? 3+ (or so, if you want to waterfowl), 1 turkey, those few rabbits, etc. It never mattered to me as anything pratical ....
The 20 serves plenty good enough for us "beater-types" when we don't feel like packin' the weight of as 12
Certaintly not to be anywise contradictory, but just to add a "why we go to the woods" thought. I carry a lightweight .308 "downloaded" relative to my .30-06 (for CO elk hunting) for the same reasons - it still does the job, recoil's a moot point when taking the shot - I've yet to see the lack for what I do. YMMV
A 20's great to carry 'round the field just because of the lighter weight & handier package + they'll do 90% of a 12, all told. Maybe more, as I wouldn't be totin' around my 20 for turkey or waterfowl anyway .... you pick the tool for the game.
Far as recoil, it seems to get lost somewhere in the "thrill" of the shot (to me anyways). I don't shoot competition, & actual live game is somewhat spotty - here 'n there = no biggie, so it really never comes into play regards the constant "pounding," if that. & really, what's the limit for the game afoot? 20 for doves? 3+ (or so, if you want to waterfowl), 1 turkey, those few rabbits, etc. It never mattered to me as anything pratical ....
The 20 serves plenty good enough for us "beater-types" when we don't feel like packin' the weight of as 12
Certaintly not to be anywise contradictory, but just to add a "why we go to the woods" thought. I carry a lightweight .308 "downloaded" relative to my .30-06 (for CO elk hunting) for the same reasons - it still does the job, recoil's a moot point when taking the shot - I've yet to see the lack for what I do. YMMV
Looks like I'm not the only one up early today, Lab.
Shooting at live game, I rarely, if ever feel the kick. Sometimes I don't hear the bang either, adrenalin focussing at its best. And except for doves in South America, or those upper class Brit pheasant drives, hardly any wingshooting burns up much ammo.
Again, the biggest drawback to the 20 is the lack of a common, reasonably priced equivalent to a trap load with its premium components and ultra hard shot. A good hand with a reloader negates that.
I shot at PGC yesterday with a shooter I know, mentioned in a recent thread. He doesn't reload and was out of 12 gauge ammo, so he shot some trap with his 11-87 20 gauge. 7/8 oz loads, full choke, and he smoked plenty.
Shooting at live game, I rarely, if ever feel the kick. Sometimes I don't hear the bang either, adrenalin focussing at its best. And except for doves in South America, or those upper class Brit pheasant drives, hardly any wingshooting burns up much ammo.
Again, the biggest drawback to the 20 is the lack of a common, reasonably priced equivalent to a trap load with its premium components and ultra hard shot. A good hand with a reloader negates that.
I shot at PGC yesterday with a shooter I know, mentioned in a recent thread. He doesn't reload and was out of 12 gauge ammo, so he shot some trap with his 11-87 20 gauge. 7/8 oz loads, full choke, and he smoked plenty.
Finally get to disagree with you, Dave.
"Looks like I'm not the only one up early today, Lab."
I'm up late. 3:10AM in CO ...
All a matter of personal perspective in so many things, no?
All told, if you can't do it with a 20, you probably couldn't do it with a 12 ... (except for those very rare nit-pick things )
"Looks like I'm not the only one up early today, Lab."
I'm up late. 3:10AM in CO ...
All a matter of personal perspective in so many things, no?
All told, if you can't do it with a 20, you probably couldn't do it with a 12 ... (except for those very rare nit-pick things
)Chipperman
New member
My first shotgun was a Mossy 500 20g. B'Day present from Pop when I was 12. Still have it.
One of those guns I would never sell, no matter what.
Anyway, I never thought of the kick from it as being harsh. I think a 20g vs 12g shotgun is analogous to a .40 vs .45 handgun.
The 20g and .40 recoils are short and snappy whereas the 12g and .45 are more of a strong push.
This comparison is assuming similar loads in similar models, of course.
One of those guns I would never sell, no matter what.
Anyway, I never thought of the kick from it as being harsh. I think a 20g vs 12g shotgun is analogous to a .40 vs .45 handgun.
The 20g and .40 recoils are short and snappy whereas the 12g and .45 are more of a strong push.
This comparison is assuming similar loads in similar models, of course.