Why does everyone want tighter buck shot groups?

Why does everyone always want tighter buck shot groups?

Not everyone does, and not everyone wants the same thing from a buckshot pattern all the time. Clint Smith says "the most consistent thing about shotguns is their inconsistency" and I say the same thing is true of shotgunners :D. Circumstances change, situations change, problems change and so do solutions. Shotguns are versatile, that's one of the reasons a lot of people like them. They can be 'point' weapons, they can be 'area' weapons, they can be lots of things in different situations, usually with a simple change in ammo.

BUT in a defensive role, every projectile you dispense downrange has a lawyer in tow. You're responsible for each one till it comes to rest. I want all mine to come to rest in the target I'm shooting at, not a hundred yards further downrange in the eye socket of some innocent party. Anyone who wants to liberally dispense buckshot all over the landscape, that's their option- everybody gets to make their choices, everybody gets to take their ride.

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of having a shotgun?

I like shotguns because they are .73 (seventy three caliber), because they launch payloads of an ounce (437.5 grains) or more with every pull of the trigger, at useful velocities (1100-1600 FPS) AND can still be controllable and accurate in the hands of an average shooter. So, please brag to me some more about what a guaranteed manstopper that .45ACP launching a 230 grain bullet at 900 FPS is... . POWER is why I want a shotgun, accuracy is my responsibility.

For me I want the largest spread possible that lands on the target.

Sure, that's the idea. So what happens if your target is 25 yards away or more? Might not be a probability in your case, but for me a shotgun is the go-to long gun, and if it has to go outside, ranges open up pretty fast. My shotgun is not an exclusively indoor gun.

If you need tighter groups for your buckshot shouldn't you be using a rifle?

So offer me a repeating rifle that is .73, fires a 437 grain pre-fragmented bullet at 1100- 1600 FPS that I can manage to shoot from the shoulder and hit with, and I'll be glad to try it out.

hth,

lpl
 
In my opinion shotguns and buckshot are somewhat over rated. Yes they work well within a limited set of circumstances. The problem is that some people have seen too many movies and have unrealistic expectations.

What type of groups you want is dependent on how far you plan to shoot, just like in a hunting shotgun. If I knew shots would be with in 5 yards or so I would want the maximum spread possible. Since I cannot guarantee that I would only take close shots I would tend to err on the side of using more choke than needed.

Another thing to consider is that for buckshot to really be effective you must have multiple hits in a vital area. A single pellet of OO buckshot is actually less effective than most 9mm pistol ammo, and looses that energy much faster as range increases.
 
5 yards??? :eek: What kind of shotguns do you guys shoot? I usually get one-holers out to around 15, even with turkey loads. BTW, a heavy 3" turkey load makes one heckuva good HD round in my opinion--heavy payload transfer on target, immediate breakup upon impact, little remaining energy for "strays".

Almost any shell can be modified with an ordinary pocket knife to produce a single hole out to 45, 50, even 60 yards! You still have to account for drop due to gravity and waning velocity at longer ranges. Buckshot drilled with a .050" bit and strung together with monofilament fishing line also makes a devastating reload with nearly all pellets staying within an 8-10" circle.;)


-7-
 
@a7mmnut: would love to see this magical shotgun you have that all shot stays together at 15 yards out... (you are talking about yards, not feet, right?)

I'm not really into novelty type reloads myself... buckshot and slugs is enough for me. ;)
 
Yea, this thread is starting to repeat itself. As has been mentioned before, the counter to your argument is that if you're going to have all your shot enter as one mass you might as well use slugs or a rifle and go for the extra penetration.

In a HD scenario you aim probably won't be perfect, thus a little spread helps you get "close enough".

To each his own method though.
Click to expand...

10' yes, 10 yards no. Reason for shot over slug is penetration of things I do not want to penetrate. Longest shot in my house is 8 yards, there won't be much spread but as all my shotguns show during play time there will be a spread. I'll leave the slugs and the 3 1/2" magnum loads for the guys expecting to be invaded by Tyrannosaurus Rex, 2 3/4" shells work for me at HD distances. I only use slugs for 100 yard practice before deer season because my shot guns are my back ups.
 
Load it however you want!

If you want big patterns:

Load 12 gauge 3" Winchester #1 buckshot (.30" x 24 pellets) with an improved cylinder choke.
Result: 20" patterns at 25 yards.

If you want tight patterns:

Load 12 gauge 3" Dixie Tri-Ball (.60" x 3 pellets) with a full choke.
Result: 5" pattern at 50 yards.


Both loads fire the same weight of lead at the same velocity: 2.25 ounces at 1050 FPS.
 
I was using a rifled choke in my HD gun for a while. It gave me a pretty nice group at in house ranges.

I can see why you would want a tight pattern for hunting, but HD I want a big fat pattern.
 
Forensics experts have told me that the most effective buck patterns would be those that are about 8' across and hit the CNS.

My shotgun, choke and load will do the first part, hitting the CNS is up to me. And I've decades of practice at hitting small things,fast.
 
A different reason

I live in a very remote area near Canada that in the past 2 years, has been 'adopted' by mexican drug cartels as an area to grow pot. For 2 years running the DEA has busted many BIG grow sites with-in a few miles of my home. Forestry workers have been told not to enter certain areas of public land. Mexicans driving rental cars with California License plates have been in the area alot. My neighbor was confronted at his home at 3AM by one trying to escape the law, and I have been confronted in the bush. The area near me has become a dumping ground for stolen vechicles with switched license plates. I carry a full choked shotgun with a pistolgrip stock loaded with buckshot as a defensive firearm so that I can put multible projectiles on target in a thick brush ambush enviroment at distances of 50 yards and more, a poor man's FA if you will. Hopfully this will enable me to break contact and safely retreat. I do not plan on being assainated like an AZ rancher without putting up a defensive fight!
For this I need a shotgun/ammo combo that produces very tight groups.
 
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Kenno, Have you tried the same gun with a traditional type stock? I feel you could easily bring more to bear on the losers than with a PGO grip. Or are you using an AR type stock?
Brent
 
I want tight buckshot patterns because it reduces collateral damages and increases hit probability at longer ranges [if necessary] - not to mention that the terminal ballistics of a tight pattern of buckshot is devastatingly effective on bipedal assailants.

Try to figure out what the longest distance in your dwelling is, and pattern your shotgun at that distance.


Dave McC said:
Forensics experts have told me that the most effective buck patterns would be those that are about 8' across and hit the CNS.
Click to expand...
An eight-foot pattern?? you mean 8" inches?
 
Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types:

stocktypes.gif
 
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Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types:


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The SxS is indeed a straight griped stock (just like my Webly Scott)
The PGO is correct
The 'detached pistol grip'? It looks attached to me!
The 'pistolgrip or grip stock'? Where did you find this, England? it's a semi-pistolgrip stock and has been for at least 60 years, heck they made 1903s with semi-pistolgrip stocks!
Oh wait; I see your from Kalifornia, never mind.
 
Once again, we had a brief failure to communicate about stock types:


__________________

The SxS is indeed a straight griped stock (just like my Webly Scott)
The PGO is correct
The 'detached pistol grip'? It looks attached to me!
The 'pistolgrip or grip stock'? Where did you find this, England? it's a semi-pistolgrip stock and has been for at least 60 years, heck they made 1903s with semi-pistolgrip stocks!
Oh wait; I see your from Kalifornia, never mind.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Straight/English stock is what I would call it too.
The PGO is also correct terminology.

On the other hand, I refer to the stock on the 1100 as a Pistol Grip Full Stock
The Wingmaster has a conventional stock
 
Kenno, Zippy's 10-20 has nuttin to do with the terms used on the forum!

Actually, I bet when he is amongst his "peers" at the field, they use verbage and nounage (my word) properly and without abbreviations such as PGO...

When I first joined a few years ago, the discussions on stocks would fling off on a tangent as too many did not know how to describe what they held...

Some of us tried to come up with ways to help those who otherwise would keep arguing that they "already have a stock and want a pistol grip"

Zippy has the simple image that, up until you couldn't comprehend it, has functioned well for the task at hand...

I chose to call them Straight stock, traditional, AR style, and PGO.

Seems to serve the Call of Duty/Resident Evil/Mall Cop types better...

To me a traditional would be the one on an old SXS but too many folks never seen one complete... Many have seen it as a sawed off on the games but then it is a sawed off modern style as the straight grip lends poorly to sawed off combat duty.

I know much of the terminology I use is not 100% correct but it is what I came up with as I try to help those who ask for help.

I think Zippy likely forgot more about shotguns than many on here will ever know!

Brent
 
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