Why does everyone want tighter buck shot groups?

S

Super-Dave

New member
Why does everyone always want tighter buck shot groups?

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of having a shotgun?

For me I want the largest spread possible that lands on the target.

If you need tighter groups for your buckshot shouldn't you be using a rifle?
 
I'd imagine a tighter spread enables longer distance shooting, but I use a rifle almost exclusively. Some locals prohibit rifle hunting. I have always thought that to be dumb gubmint interference under the thin veil of imagined safety, but that doesn't stop the severe consequences if one doesn't do as the Romans.
 
The reason for a tight group is distance. One single pellet at extended range may not have the energy to do the job but 3 just may be enough.

The reason for keeping the 00 buck on the market is that if you are a bit off on POI aim, the extending pattern (tighter the better) may allow enuff pellets to hit the proper POI to drop the animal.
BTW, this is how I see it... others may say i am wrong or explain better.
Brent
 
Depends on usage.

HD , you don't want shot hitting other people. Tight is good.

War , different..........
 
At HD distances you are not going to get very much spread regardless of what ammo you use. You still have to aim regardless of how Hollywood portrays shotguns.

Also, you are liable for what you shoot so why risk stray pellets?

Even with a tight patterning shotgun you still have choices. For example at 50ft I can get a five inch group with Winchester Winlite 9-pellet 00BK or I can get a ten inch group with Remington 16-pellet 1BK with my Vang Comp'd 870.
 
With buckshot, when hunting, you are suposed to aim not point as when wingshooting. Idea is to put the center of the shot pattern at the same place you would put a single rifle bullet.

And what is lacked by each individual pellet is made up for by the extra pellets that hit. Usually, with sufficent hits, one of them will hit something very vital which ends things quickly.

What, to my way of thinking, sets a limit to buckshot is not so much retained energy of the individual pellets but rather the fact that after some point you don't have a reasonable hope of the multiple hits in a vital area to do the job.

If you could get the pattern tight enough then I'd guess that with the 000 we use there would be enough retained energy to penetrate sufficently out to 70 yards or more. Problem is that they spread out to much.....I think.....
 
The shotgun is the most misunderstood weapon in the Brigade Combat Team.

As an offensive weapon the shotgun should be employed as a full stocked weapon employing 00# buckshot rounds, supported by a pistol (M-9 or M-9A1 for the US military). In this role commanders must account for the limited effective range of the shotgun. Employing the current 00# buckshot loads 25-35 meters is the soldier’s realistic effective range. Employed without a stock this range is reduced to approximately 10-15 meters.

http://www.pro-patria.us/full_spectrum_shotgun


Standards: Engaged targets with the 12-gauge shotgun, scoring a minimum of two pellets per round in the targets.

http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/SHOTGUN_Qual_Article4.7933747.mht
 
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It is rare to see someone contradict himself within a single sentence.
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There is no contradiction. That is what everyone who is shooting a shotgun wants. Thus why there are so many options when it comes to chokes, wads, and loads. So you can tailor the gun and ammunition for the use at hand.

What the OP said is true for HD. I want something that opens up relatively quick because the ranges are going to be short. I WANT the shot to spread to increase the chance of at least one pellet hitting something important. If all the pellets are going in the same hole at the range you are shooting at, you might as well use slugs or a rifle.

If I was hunting BGs on the street, then I would want something that gave me more range. Again, tailoring the gun and ammo for the task at hand.

Something like the unbuffered Wolf Buckshot works well for very close range because the pellets deform and the pattern opens up relatively quick. Not good for extended range, very good for "down the hall" shots.

Some review over at the "Box-O-Truth"

Wolf Buckshot

Other Buskshot patterns.
 
Why does everyone always want tighter buck shot groups?
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Super-Dave, for many, the use of buck shot is not a matter of choice, but is legally mandated. I believe, most folks would prefer to use a rifle. Those who write the rules believe shotguns with with slugs or shot have less range than hi-powered rifles and are safer when hunting in more densely populated regions.

Think about it, if you have to use buck shot, then the tighter the group, the closer you are to emulating a rifle.
 
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The spread of the pattern, be it tight or open, certainly depends on the intended target and expected distance.

I've no desire to shoot the Flight-Control loads in my house. Were I out hunting something in the woods, I might very well choose that.

Here is what I would expect from HD loads, where my longest shot would max out at about 15 yards...... (this pattern was shot at 15 yards)

slpmk1-14.jpg


Point of aim was the orange bullseye. S&B "00" buckshot was used, which has no shot buffer and so will spread faster. The three groups measured 9.25", 6.5", and 8.75" for a three group average of 8.16". These were shot with the IC (improved cylinder) choke installed in my FNH SLP Mark1.


slpmk1-13.jpg


At 50 yards, slugs do just fine. Put several of them on target and they aren't all that different than buckshot....with a nice tight pattern! :D
 
The spread of the pattern, be it tight or open, certainly depends on the intended target and expected distance.
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Yup, that's what I think part of the problem is in this thread. Some of us are talking about a max range of 7 yards and some are thinking of a max range of 50 yards.
 
An interesting buckshot variance is triball from Dixie slugs. Three .62 balls per load. Each ball has enough energy to be very leathal by itself. Patterns can be varied depending upon what choke tube you use. These are 3" loads.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/

From my experiences with a shotgun, you want the most pellet strikes in your targets vital zone at the range you intend to shoot it at. If your normal range is 40 yds as in thick cover deer hunting then a tight pattern at that range is best. Home defense ranges make the cylinder bore more effective than a full or turkey full choke.

I like 3" #1 with its 24 .30cal pellets or 2 3/4 Mag #1 loads with its 20 pellets. High hit counts with penetration.
 
7 yards or 50 I want my shot on target. If I want something to the left or right shot I will point my gun in that direction. Otherwise you might as well use a hand grenade. Keep it tight.
 
I hope I'm not repeating anything that was already said, but when you get to increased distances (greater than a reasonable/typical distance inside your home) the pattern turns into a "donut" effect, which means you usually do not have any shot in the middle of your pattern, only a circle around it. This could mean that you graze the outside of your target, or miss it all together.

Even a shotgun with a tighter choke on it to get a tighter buckshot group will still get you a group. It's not going to be the same diameter as a slug...unless you are at close range anyway, in which case you don't need to choke down in the first place, since the shot won't have the distance to open up much, regardless of a wider choke.
 
Uncle Ben

What you describe only happened when you shoot buckshot out of a rifled barrel.

Otherwise you might as well use a hand grenade. Keep it tight.
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Yea, this thread is starting to repeat itself. As has been mentioned before, the counter to your argument is that if you're going to have all your shot enter as one mass you might as well use slugs or a rifle and go for the extra penetration.

In a HD scenario you aim probably won't be perfect, thus a little spread helps you get "close enough".

To each his own method though.
 
First of all, a donut pattern can happen even with a smoothbore in which the solution is to try a different brand of shell. Also, just because shot enters as one mass doesn't mean that it stays as a single mass, there will be individual wound channels and the shot will continue to spread apart and open up the more it travels.

The main idea is you want to spread of the shot to be the size that you want it at the distance you intend to be shooting at. If you're hunting or taking longer shots, then you want the pattern to be as tight as possible to extend your distance. For home defense distances, it doesn't particularly matter as the shot will still be tight no matter what type of barrel you're shooting it from.
 
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