Why do so many sound so anti-LEO?

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Erik

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I'm curious, so many of those who post here sound hateful toward the police in America. Why? I know everyone gets a little nervous when a LEO pulls behind them while driving. What has personally happened to you to evoke such negative fellings? I'm not bashing- just curious.

Erik

I realize many do not fit the above description- feel free to add your thoughts, if you please.
 
I'm not anti-leo. Actually I quite respect anyone in that line of work. However its that lame ones that get recognised because they are always harrasing the wrong people.
It's true. On many occasions I may sound very anti-leo, but the truth is I'm only anti people who have no business in law inforcement.
<shrug> I've had my run in's with police, and most of them were just plain stupid, yet their were good ones as well. Just like in any proffesion, any job.

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Freedom by its self is just a word. To have freedom we must protect our rights to be free.
 
The majority of all posts I have read on this forum since I came onboard in late 1998 have been supportive of LEOs.

There is a harsh attitude against "bad apples", expressed by LEOs here as well as "just us folks".

If any group of LEOs gets negative comments, it is the federales. It's not just on this forum, it's nationwide. It's not just idiocies like Waco, it's the dead bodies accumulating in drug raids--where no drugs were found. "Flash, bang, you're dead" is not just some nutzoids on the Internet.

Regards, Art
 
I wouldn't go so far as to say "hateful" though no doubt some posts are. However, because LEOs have a lot of authority that the average civilian does not have (I know they have more responsibility also) we as citizens must be able to take them to task for how they use or abuse that authority. Please do not mistake simple desire for accountability or legitimate questions for hateful rhetoric.

John
 
I respect, admire and am on a first name basis with many local LEOs. Bad laws help to separate us. They don't make them, but sometimes they support them in the name of officer safety or efficiency. I will bend backwards on officer safety to a point, but not towards an acceptance of the continual dissolution of civil rights that are often espoused by a few in the LE community. Good cops and good armed civilians may have the same minimum goals. Mine as a citizen are safe places to live and work freely while being in control of the first line of my own armed personal defense and that of my family.
I don't hate police in america. I hate laws that ignore america's constitution.
 
Don't get me wrong-

Accountability is a good thing. So is criticism. But some seem to have nothing good to say, and a lot of nasty things.

Erik
 
I try not to be hateful toward LEOs. I try not to use terms like JBTs. I don't refer to BATF agents as BATmen. I make an effort. This is all because I know that not all cops are bad people. In fact, I know that the vast majority of LEOs are good people.
I know all that intellectually. But you see, I've only met one good one in my life. He was an Illinois state cop who pulled me over when I sped through one of their "wolfpack" radar traps. He was polite, wrote my ticket and left.
I know some of you are thinking this is exaggeration, that it's untrue. You're welcome to believe what you will, but I'm telling you that every single cop I ever knew in my small hometown was/is corrupt. I've been harassed by them, others have had property including a firearm confiscated and not returned with no charges. The chief is corrupt. All six of the cops are corrupt. A large sample? No, and I know it.
I'm not saying that your cops are corrupt. For what it's worth, the best cops I know are TFL members, except that I don't have contact with them. But think about what that says about law enforcement today--I grew up with cops and I didn't know any good ones until I came here.
I don't know if I sound anti-LEO or not. But I wouldn't be surprised.
 
Well, I'm going to throw some raw meat out, and say what I REALLY feel on this subject:

I'd venture to guess that some of it is because police, in my humble opinion at least, are not deserving of respect JUST BECAUSE they're police. The Gestapo were police. (BAT)F-troop are police.

You can't determine whether police deserve respect apart from the laws they're enforcing, and let's face it: We've got a LOT of laws in this country which deserve nothing but contempt. So what, then, should we feel towards the people who, (Voluntarilly, mind you! They're not conscripts!) enforce those contemptable laws?

OK, everyone, this is your cue to attack me, by basically re-stating the Nuremberg defense. They're only following orders! I don't know why that defense should be accorded any more respect here in America, than it was in Germany...

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Sic semper tyranus!
 
Erik,
While my words may sometimes sound a little harsh, they're not really.
I feel more than a little betrayed by our government(s).

There is a general distrust, or dislike, for any authority figure, it's human nature. It's also human nature to try to hedge the system alittle, like speeding, or nudging the limit on taxes, that sort of thing. Technically it's illegal to do this.

Hell, generations have been raised, and taught to think for themselves, to be independent thinkers. Not to follow the status quo. And everyone out here knows human nature as well. We all realize that no matter what profession your in, you have a worm working on some people.

We grow up most of our lives reading about situations like Operation Graylord, where our Justices selling us out. We learn about things like the Rodney King case. We read about the crimes commited in cities like New Orleans, and New York, and Chicago by LEO. And we develop a distrust, we begin to perceive that all cops are crooked. We begin to distrust, period.

And unless you know a person face to face, and know that person as a friend, your instinsts kick in.

I don't think there's a person out here, who would Carte Blanche, pull over to the side of the road, and give just anybody a ride without weighing out the "picture" before them. IOW, use common sense before reacting.

I've had some damn unpleasant dealings with a couple LEO in my little p!ss@nt town, but I also remember the LEo who've helped me out too.

And like the saying goes, "Next time a burglar is breaking into your home, call the local pusher". I couldn't have said it in better words. Only exception would be to arm myself first!!

Best Regards,
Don

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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited February 08, 2000).]
 
Don, frankly, calling a pusher in the event of a break-in would do me just about as much good as calling the police. It all comes down to the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the police CANNOT be there when you are attacked, they can only be there to pick up the pieces. I don't hold this against the police, I am just a bit annoyed when people make it sound like calling the police if someone is attacking you is the solution. Defending yourself is the solution---don't count on anyone else to do it for you.
 
leos work for the state. they enforce the state's rules. often these rules are enforced in the most harsh manner that the state allows (e.g. no knock search warrants, road blocks, fishing expeditions, property seizure, etc.). the state is definitely against freedom including the freedom of owning and carrying of weapons. with no drug war, no gun war, no no-knocks, no property seizure, no conning people into searches, and no road blocks, then i would probably love leos. but with these things, i can not help but view leos as potential ememies as much as potential allies.
 
As long as there is no accountability for the wrong doing by LEO's all over the contry , then there will be little else but contempt. Yes there are bad guys, but there is no reason that the LEO's have to wear Nija Suits and use sub machine guns and use dynamic entry to serve a warrant on a tax issue...REMEMBER ALL ATF LAWS ARE TAX LAWS !!!!! Since when is a $200 tax stamp ( the highest ATF tax) an excuse to use leathal force????

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What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?
 
While I have been critical of some law enforcement officers, I am pro-law enforcement. I am on the side of dedicated officers.
Many of our laws are unconstitutional and this makes law enforcement distasteful to a lot of people. We need to know and remenber that there ARE good LEO's and we need more of them. There are also LEO's who are not good and who should find another line of work.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Hmmm...think twice, post once. Perhaps, I am in the minority opinion but here goes. I have many good friends who are in law enforcement. These include the town cop, deputy sheriffs, State Troopers, Federal Marshals, BATF, Department of Energy, and even the IRS. Granted, I know most of these guys from competition and informal shooting as well as working with local LEOs as a member of the emergency services. I have a great deal of respect for all LEOs and that respect is given not only to the individual but to the office they hold. Furthermore, when a LEO does something to lose my respect it is always on an individual basis and doesn’t reflect on the profession as a whole. Stereotypes are unhealthy whether it is labeling the Fed’s as Gestapo or the members of TFL as gun toting skinheads.

[This message has been edited by Ankeny (edited February 08, 2000).]
 
I'm not anti-LEO. God knows I wouldn't want the job. Also, like any job that places the holder in a position of extreme authority (carrying a sidearm, having the power to arrest, etc.), abusive character traits that may have otherwise gone un-noticed are offered the opportunity to surface.

I think the LEO and the Citizen, in the majority of encounters, walk a narrow tightrope of mutual suspicion and distrust - the former (LEO), because of their daily exposure to all that is flawed with our species and the latter (Citizen), because the resentment, and fear of, authority is an American trait and one that is not universally shared (ex. Japan).

Am I sounding too clinical, here?

Perhaps the best example of this LEO / Citizen balancing act is a simple question:

If you see a Police car in your rearview mirror do you:

A) Wish he/she would go away?

..or..

B) Feel comforted by the presence?

And therein lay the 'meat' of the matter.

Cliff
 
Now that I got over my memories of Russia, I do not have a panic attack followed by anger whenever I see cops. I made a point of getting acquainted with local police officer s and found them friendly and courteous.

I might find ATF or DEA employees to be fine people, too...as long as they were in dereliction of duty. Trouble with the perceptions is that some people view employees of regulatory agencies as being more equal than others and operating with impunity. We hear of abuses and have a hunch that, should we ourselves be attacked, there will be no recourse. That kind of fear breeds serious dislike. Basically, they are like plague to medieval Europeans: random in scope and highly lethal, with no known effective antidotes. Moreover, the few people who have ideas for preventing plague (sanitation, keeping cats for rodent control) were persecuted as witches.

Then those tax/regulatory agency employees get mis-labeled as LEOs (which they are not) based on the similarity of uniforms and tactics. While some people do beware of police, I would guess those who keep up with current events are more concerned about DEA, ATF, and the like. People who are not concerned, IMO hold a view that the only people hunted by our uncivil servants are "those people" and never themselves.

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited February 08, 2000).]
 
Cops have a sh!ty and very needed job that I would not want, but when they overstep their bounds and start to abuse their power I get really critical. I know and am friends with almost a dozen cops that are part of our Scottish socity here in Salt Lake and most of them are very good guys. They have no problems pointing out the sh!tbirds and practice what they know to be right and worng. They also know why I am suspicious of LE's. Hell, they are responsible for most of it! I hold most LE's in suspicion until they prove otherwise. History has shown again and again that they can not be trusted anymore than the normal citizen and I hold most people in the same light.

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Wanna help me feed my hogs?
 
I'll begin to respect Federal Law Enforcement and Tax enforcement when I finally see some indictments on Vicky Weaver's Murder, and the Branch Davidian Murders. No peace until then. The mere fact that Lon Horiucci is still sucking off of my tax dollars makes me ill. At one time the FBI was the greatest LE agency in the world-bar none. They have let the few soil the many, and they need to clean house if they want the respect of a candid world. F Troop is just sorry, and nothing can clean them up. They exist to separate you from your God Given rights.
Now for the LEO's I love and would do anything for. County, City and some state LEO's. They tend to weed out the bad apples without being forced. They do the most thankless job for the most sorry of salaries, and are generally of excellent character. The big difference is that they "police" themselves first. As I see it, the number one job of a Law Enforcement officer is to encourage a safety attitude among civilians. If this job were done perfectly, then all the cops would be is paperwork filers. Safety means encouraging the safe and skilled use of firearms by civilians and educating the population on a myriad of issues from DWI, to Trespass- Before any laws get broke. Unfortunately there are knothead civilians running around ruining it for all of us. The knotheads shouldn't be a perpetual problem for cops, the civilians should take care of that from the Jury Box. Summary: Feds BAD, Locals: Awesome.
 
I don't think that i've ever said anything anti LEO. or anti VIRGO. (sorry, i couldn't resist) ANyhow, I don't have any problems with the local boys, except one, who's a retard. In fact, i know a bunch of them personally. I don't mind the FBI at all. They're almost all decent enough folks, at least the five or six I've met. One was a bit arrogant, but then I am too, on occasion. I also don't mind the Marshals, the secret service, or the state boys. It's the ATF and DEA that really annoy me. REally, it's mostly the DEA, as if they washington folks were to repeal the drug laws, then crime would drop like a rock. but here they are contributing to the arming of criminals, by making them believe that they really need to arm themselves. And the ATF because they are on the wrong end of gun laws.

On another note, I have a really, really hard time mustering anything at all in the line of sympathy for the idiots that got burned in Waco. First of all, they were nuts, and the FBI had reason to believe that Koresh was routinely raping little children. Had it been me, I'd have gone in there on the third day, not a month and a half later. Ruby Ridge is a little different, but not much. They want to slap him on the wrist, and he arms his kids to shoot at federal agents. not good.

~~~Mineralman
 
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