Why Do People Try To Get Me To Do Things Illegally?

J

Joe_Pike

New member
I recently tried to sell a couple of handguns here and have also tried to sell a couple on another forum I no longer participate in. I usually end up closing the threads because someone wants me to do things just a little bit shady or completely against the law, and I have to ask why. Why would someone put another person in that position?

I have had several people over the years try to get me to do FTF transactions even though they don't live in the same state I am in. I tell them no and usually that is the end of it. One guy tried to convince me that all would be fine.

Someone else wanted me to ship a handgun in a USPS flat rate box to him telling me that it was okay because he was an FFL. Completely illegal for me to do, so, why would someone want to put me in that position?

The low ball offers I can deal with as I can just decline, but the shady stuff has really disappointed me. I admit that the vast majority of gun laws are outrageous, but I have to work within the bounds of the law.

Dang it, I really wanted to sell a couple, too.
 
Last edited:
Some folks just have no appreciation for the risks that will be run.

Sure, the chances of getting caught sending a gun US Mail (if not a FFL) or declaring it "machine parts" so UPS and FedEx don't demand overnight fees are remote. Sure, the chances of getting busted doing an interstate FTF are really small.

BUT, if you get caught, the consequences are significant... felonies will mean you get to find a new hobby. I don't understand why people choose to play with fire that way. I'm not even sure that it is usually ignorance; as you point out, there's some FFLs that give this bad advice (I've heard one guy in a gun shop give this kind of bad advice in the past), and they know better.

IMO, it's an example of the gun community being its own worst enemy... when we encourage others to break the law because the likelihood of getting caught is slim we just reinforce the stereotype of gun owners as people with no regard for anything.
 
At a recent gun show a friend of mine exhibiting had someone ask to purchase an antique firearm without a background check. Said friend checked with the ATF agent overseeing the show and the agent said it was legal to sell but it's at the FFL's discretion. My friend decided against the sale.

Sure it was legal, but I still think that falls within "shady".

I know there is a lot of paranoia about the government and all, and I'm not accusing the buyer of being a felon. I didn't even see the buyer, this all happened while I was browsing other tables. Still, that seems like an odd request, especially right there on the gun show floor.

I am personally committed to doing everything on the up-and-up. I am also paranoid about the government, but as a former government employee I also know the best way to get in trouble is to give someone an excuse to give you trouble. Hoping the law doesn't notice is going to catch up with you eventually.

Not only that, but everytime some story gets in the news about some illegal purchase or someone carrying a gun illegally just becomes more news fodder about the dangers of gun ownership.
 
It is shocking how much some people are willing to gamble. I'm just not the betting type. Every transaction I enter into be it sale or purchase is by the book!
 
You've gotta figure that at least some of those guys are ATF agents keeping an eye on the internetz.

pax
 
And sometimes you don't even have to ask them. I once purchased a gun via an online auction (I've a C&R). The next thing I know UPS has left a box on my doorstep. I called UPS and asked them why their driver would leave a shotgun on a doorstep without so much as a signature. They were like, "What's the problem?" I told them "Well, for starters it's highly illegal. Beyond that, can you imagine YOUR liability if some punk steals the gun from my doorstep and goes on a shooting spree?" I could see the deer in the headlights look on the CSR even through the telephone. :rolleyes:
 
Try running a gun shop.

I will not bypass the background check for a cash incentive. I will not sell the same gun the guy was looking at to his wife/girlfriend/mother. I will not discuss how to "convert" a firearm to full auto.

Yeah, I do get asked that stuff fairly often.
 
To answer the OP...it's because the world is full of people trying to save a buck and don't give a rat's you know what about the consequences.
 
Lest Joe Pike be discouraged, I've concluded numerous sales on this very site without problem. In fact, I've never been sorry for a one of them. The out-of-state transactions have all gone though my local FFL. Most, but by no means all, of the folks here are good to go.

God bless.
 
Well, I have had pretty good luck with the internet and purchases. I'm sorry your experience hasn't been the same. At least you have the sense not to go along with something you know you shouldn't do.
 
1. They probably have never read the relevant laws and regulations.
2. Hence, they have no understanding of what is and isn't legal.
3. Yes, some of them probably are ATF.
4. I tell anyone who wants me to do something shadyl or even illegal-bidding starts at $100,000.
 
Lots of paperwork-skirters everywhere.

But to play devils advocate (partially), this struck me:

"At a recent gun show a friend of mine exhibiting had someone ask to purchase an antique firearm without a background check"


Uhh... that's the way it's always done. Antiques, as defined by the BATFE, are not "firearms"... they are antiques. No background check or paperwork is required. I'd personally defer buying one from someone who insisted on a check, as it shows that they don't know anything about the regs.


Willie

.
 
someone wants me to do things just a little bit shady or completely against the law, and I have to ask why.
Click to expand...

Default answer: someone is an agent or operative of one or more Federal agencies, trying to entrap you. The only sane thing to do is abort the sale.
 
Tom

I will not sell the same gun the guy was looking at to his wife
Click to expand...

Why not? That isn't illegal at least in my state(notice my copy and paste from your post stopped after 'wife'). From my understanding my firearm is hers and viceversa anyways. I don't doubt your position Tom, but do you just trust your gut & take this scenario on a case by case basis? This very thing happened with us multiple times(she has bought multiple firearms and I have as well). I could see others being illegal while the wife isn't as an example but don't know how one would be able to tell that. Plus she can just go somewhere else or come back a different days anyways.
 
I agree, but sometimes you can tell when someone has no interest in what they are buying, or someone might be stupid enough to say "my wife has to buy it because I can't pass a background check", or they fail to pass a background check and then their wife spouse etc suddenly wants to buy the exact same gun.

I feel like that would be the type of situation the comment was talking about.
 
Why would someone put another person in that position?
Click to expand...

Simple. They want a gun but either fear the government who are thought to some day track down gun owners via FFL sale records or they can't get a gun legally.

They are putting you in that position, no doubt, because they don't know you and have absolutely no concern for what may happen to you. They don't mind putting you at risk so long as they get their gun.
 
Simple. They want a gun but either fear the government who are thought to some day track down gun owners via FFL sale records or they can't get a gun legally.
Click to expand...

But in many (perhaps most) states, there are perfectly legal means by which to acquire firearms without FFL sales records. So the "can't get a gun legally" is the more likely explanation.

They don't mind putting you at risk so long as they get their gun.
Click to expand...

There's some truth to that no doubt, but I would think they're putting themselves at risk as well by being the other half of the illegal transaction.

I would think a small number of people don't realize that something like an interstate FTF transaction is illegal, but as has been said, most people likely only look at the likelihood of getting caught.

As has been noted in other hobbies/industries, a VERY small portion of the population would be willing to steal a CD from a store and yet countless people are willing to download music illegally off the internet. The difference is at the store, there are comparatively few customers, virtually none of whom are stealing CD's, and there are security cameras and loss prevention officers in contrast to the privacy of your own home where no one watches and millions of people are doing the same thing minimizing the chance that you would ever get singled out for consequences.

But fact is, it's like some people say, it's not about the odds, it's about the stakes, and the stakes when it comes to illegal firearms transactions are always too high to be worth it.
 
I feel like that would be the type of situation the comment was talking about.
Click to expand...

yeah I'm guessing you have to trust your gut in those situations and that specific cases pop-up also where as the gun seller you need to be ethical about who is able to make a purchase.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top