Why do people own plate carriers?
- Thread starter MB21
- Start date
I'll edit my original post too, but a plate carrier is a vest that has two large pouches in the front and back designed to hold bullet-resistant plates of armor. They have webbing on them that you can attach various goodies to, mag pouches, grenade pouches, holsters, you name it.
FLC - Fighting Load Carrier, I thought since I didn't use it as an acronym in my post it would make sense, but I can see why people missed it. Its a vest that holds all the goodies as well, but isn't designed to hold two 10lb ceramic/steel/whatever plates in it.
WROL - World without Rule of Law (or close to that definition).
FLC - Fighting Load Carrier, I thought since I didn't use it as an acronym in my post it would make sense, but I can see why people missed it. Its a vest that holds all the goodies as well, but isn't designed to hold two 10lb ceramic/steel/whatever plates in it.
WROL - World without Rule of Law (or close to that definition).
leadcounsel
Moderator
Plate carriers come in several flavors.
Large IBAs (Improved Body Armor) - known by many names like IOTV (Improved Outer Tactical Vest) - which have kevlar inserts that cover entire front and back torso (Level II or III protection - handgun protection) and pockets in front and back for curved ceramic or steel plates (level IV protection rifle protection). Then there are plate carriers aka turtle shells which are just designed for carrying the level VI plates.
The carrier runs around $100, plates around $50-$150 each, and you can customize it to your liking.
Quite common, and worn by any professional forces expecting contact with an armed enemy - military, police, etc. They have documented saving thousands and thousands of lives. Why would you NOT want one, if you expect contact with an armed aggressive enemy?
Considering a ceramic plate in a carrier or IBA will cover over half of your immediately vital areas and they are affordable and available, they make perfect sense for anyone interested in home security. Non-vital hits will give the individual time to survive that critical hour until he reaches surgery if he's hit (non head shots of course). Sure, head shots are possible, but let's ignore that for the time being (head shots are beyond the aiming capability of all but the most trained individuals during a firefight, and are luck). This is about minimizing exposed vitals, not eliminating.
A good plate carrier with plates will stop 7.62 rounds, and cover chest, lungs, heart, liver, kidneys, some of the stomach, etc. The kevlar inserts give greater coverage for 9mm handgun rounds). Properly used, you've eliminated all immediately deadly vitals except shots to the head/neck and some large leg arteries.
It's the same mentality as anyone owning a home defense firearm(s). We live in a violent and unpredictable world, and home invasions are a reality of life.
Secondarily, you can store other life saving gear on it, like back up handgun, extra pistol or rifle mags, shotgun shells, zip-cuffs, flashlight, knife, and medical kit if you are wounded in a home defense fire fight (tourniquet, antibiotics, gauze, etc).
With practice, a ceramic plate carrier can be donned in a few seconds for defense of home in a home invasion scenario. Given the option, why would you NOT want to have one on if you hear trouble at the front door (whether you are the 'go inspect' or 'hunker down' mentality?
Would also be great to train your family to don them and take cover in the event of a home invasion emergency. Bullets go through walls ya know.
Large IBAs (Improved Body Armor) - known by many names like IOTV (Improved Outer Tactical Vest) - which have kevlar inserts that cover entire front and back torso (Level II or III protection - handgun protection) and pockets in front and back for curved ceramic or steel plates (level IV protection rifle protection). Then there are plate carriers aka turtle shells which are just designed for carrying the level VI plates.
The carrier runs around $100, plates around $50-$150 each, and you can customize it to your liking.
Quite common, and worn by any professional forces expecting contact with an armed enemy - military, police, etc. They have documented saving thousands and thousands of lives. Why would you NOT want one, if you expect contact with an armed aggressive enemy?
Considering a ceramic plate in a carrier or IBA will cover over half of your immediately vital areas and they are affordable and available, they make perfect sense for anyone interested in home security. Non-vital hits will give the individual time to survive that critical hour until he reaches surgery if he's hit (non head shots of course). Sure, head shots are possible, but let's ignore that for the time being (head shots are beyond the aiming capability of all but the most trained individuals during a firefight, and are luck). This is about minimizing exposed vitals, not eliminating.
A good plate carrier with plates will stop 7.62 rounds, and cover chest, lungs, heart, liver, kidneys, some of the stomach, etc. The kevlar inserts give greater coverage for 9mm handgun rounds). Properly used, you've eliminated all immediately deadly vitals except shots to the head/neck and some large leg arteries.
It's the same mentality as anyone owning a home defense firearm(s). We live in a violent and unpredictable world, and home invasions are a reality of life.
Secondarily, you can store other life saving gear on it, like back up handgun, extra pistol or rifle mags, shotgun shells, zip-cuffs, flashlight, knife, and medical kit if you are wounded in a home defense fire fight (tourniquet, antibiotics, gauze, etc).
With practice, a ceramic plate carrier can be donned in a few seconds for defense of home in a home invasion scenario. Given the option, why would you NOT want to have one on if you hear trouble at the front door (whether you are the 'go inspect' or 'hunker down' mentality?
Would also be great to train your family to don them and take cover in the event of a home invasion emergency. Bullets go through walls ya know.
Last edited:
Model12Win
Moderator
I do just enough rucks and exercises wearing that stuff to make me um... NOT want to spend MY hard earned cash on them so I can wear them VOLUNTARILY!!!
Sorry, but I'll be over hear in the un-tacti-cool corner wearing my jeans and T-shirt shooting ancient guns like cap and ball revolvers and muskets, just about the least tacti-cool things on planet Earth... I might not look cool doing it...
BUT I'LL BE WAY MORE COMFORTABLE!
Sorry, but I'll be over hear in the un-tacti-cool corner wearing my jeans and T-shirt shooting ancient guns like cap and ball revolvers and muskets, just about the least tacti-cool things on planet Earth... I might not look cool doing it...
BUT I'LL BE WAY MORE COMFORTABLE!
It just doesn't seem very practical in a self defense scenario, at least to me. Say you hear a noise down in the kitchen, are you just gonna throw on your plate carrier, gear up, and head downstairs with nothing but your skivvies, pistol, and your plate carrier? Its another worry to think about in a bad situation.
Look at the Glock, no safeties on it because in a firefight, you want the least amount of stuff to think about and screw up when your brain is functioning at a very primitive level. Now factor in throwing on all that gear and its a whole bag of extra.
Are you gonna answer the door with your plate carrier on every time after 2100? What if you get into a hand-to-hand combat situation? I can guarantee that most, if not all of the civilians that own a plate carrier have never trained how to fight with a plate carrier on.
What if you need to run? I can speak from experience (60-120s with my plate carrier+kevlar) that running with that thing on SUCKS!
At least from my point of view, the negatives outweigh the positives.
You buy it for protection. At 1-3m, if someone is using a 7.62 weapon, there's a huge chance that said assailant can hit that large area on both of your sides that is not covered by the plate.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Model12Win said:
Really adds nothing to the conversation. That's your choice. Apparently given that EVERY professional wears them when confronted with danger, they have a useful purpose.
Really adds nothing to the conversation. That's your choice. Apparently given that EVERY professional wears them when confronted with danger, they have a useful purpose.
But the professionals that wear them all the time are in a combat zone. I don't think anywhere stateside qualifies as combat zone. The number of situations that you know your home is about to be invaded is drastically less than the amount of invasions. They don't all knock on your door AK in hand.
leadcounsel
Moderator
MB21 said:
Yes. You said you never deployed, and apparently don't have the requisite mindset or training, even if you are in the military. If you did, you'd know that you have that thing sitting available to don it in about 2 seconds. You would put that on before you put on your pants.
Picture of Soldier in boxes in Afghanistan, wearing his IOTV.
Another picture of a Marine fighting in his boxers and IOTV.
MB21 said:
Then don't buy one. Problem solved.
Are you any less dead if you get shot in the chest by a crack head during a home invasion than if you died in combat? Bullets kill just the same in Iraq or in Rochester NY or Grand Rapids MI or San Antonio TX.
By the way, there are more murders with firearms in Chicago annually than US Service members dying in combat overseas annually. And that's just one city. Just this weekend there were 80+ shootings and 14 homicides in Chicago.
Conversely, nationwide, there are generally between 40-80 law enforcement officer deaths from gunfire.
So, in summary, being a civilian is actually quite dangerous compared to being in law enforcement or in the military. Surely law enforcement and military deaths per incident of contact with an armed person have a much higher survival percentage than a civilian.
Think about that for a moment and get back to us about how 'safe' America is.
Yes. You said you never deployed, and apparently don't have the requisite mindset or training, even if you are in the military. If you did, you'd know that you have that thing sitting available to don it in about 2 seconds. You would put that on before you put on your pants.
Picture of Soldier in boxes in Afghanistan, wearing his IOTV.
Another picture of a Marine fighting in his boxers and IOTV.
MB21 said:
Then don't buy one. Problem solved.
Are you any less dead if you get shot in the chest by a crack head during a home invasion than if you died in combat? Bullets kill just the same in Iraq or in Rochester NY or Grand Rapids MI or San Antonio TX.
By the way, there are more murders with firearms in Chicago annually than US Service members dying in combat overseas annually. And that's just one city. Just this weekend there were 80+ shootings and 14 homicides in Chicago.
Conversely, nationwide, there are generally between 40-80 law enforcement officer deaths from gunfire.
So, in summary, being a civilian is actually quite dangerous compared to being in law enforcement or in the military. Surely law enforcement and military deaths per incident of contact with an armed person have a much higher survival percentage than a civilian.
Think about that for a moment and get back to us about how 'safe' America is.
Last edited:
In reply to not having the mentality.
But the difference is, they are soldiers deployed in a combat zone. Not civilians home from selling paper. And in garrison, at least the IETs, we don't have our IBAs standing by ready to go at a moment's notice. Even my brother who... lets just say isn't infantry, doesn't keep his plate carriers for a situation like that.
But the difference is, they are soldiers deployed in a combat zone. Not civilians home from selling paper. And in garrison, at least the IETs, we don't have our IBAs standing by ready to go at a moment's notice. Even my brother who... lets just say isn't infantry, doesn't keep his plate carriers for a situation like that.
spacemanspiff
New member
MB21, why dont you write up a guide for living that is based on your perceptions of what we should/shouldnt do or own. Tell us how we should train, what we should ignore. Tell me the right choice between Ford and Chevy, what gas stations should I buy my gas from? What brand of contraceptives should I be using?
It would make the rest of life so much easier if you just told us all how we should live our lives. I do so appreciate that you are looking out for us and can tell us what we should or shoulding own! Takes so much worry out of my life to not have to make my own mind about stuff.
It would make the rest of life so much easier if you just told us all how we should live our lives. I do so appreciate that you are looking out for us and can tell us what we should or shoulding own! Takes so much worry out of my life to not have to make my own mind about stuff.
leadcounsel
Moderator
MB21 said:
Bingo. The heart of the matter. Do you train with or without your IOTV?
Bingo. The heart of the matter. Do you train with or without your IOTV?
leadcounsel
Moderator
MB21 said:
How far are you 'running' in your scenario? In a HD situation, you might we moving between a few rooms, and probably in a violent situation you should really just be taking cover and calling 911. But you may have to move between rooms to secure kids, or move family to safe room, etc.
I have rucked up to 12 miles on the regular when I served with the 101st and SF (yes, as a lowly staff officer), wearing IOTV, helmet, full battle rattle, boots, weapon, and rucksack, all weighing in around 80 pounds. Rucking 12 miles in that gear takes about 2.5 hours if you are hustling. We did 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 on a rotating basis, weekly. I think I can make it across the house with little difficulty wearing a 'light' 20 pound plate carrier.
And if you run into that sniper hitting you in the side with the 7.62 then it wouldn't matter either way. But surely the military and law enforcement are smarter than you, right, and they all wear them. The numbers speak for themselves of tens of thousands of lives of those saved from wearing body armor in hostile areas.
Here's a great video for education. Soldier in Iraq hit by 7.62 sniper round right in the chest. Would have resulted in instant death. But he survived relatively unharmed due to a $100 ceramic plate. Apparently combat head shots and side shots don't occur how YOU think they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQi7iknSKy0
Video with explanation. At 5:27 it shows the Soldier holding the ceramic plate, with a hit right on the Soldier heart. This would have instantly killed him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iINTCDJuf_k
How far are you 'running' in your scenario? In a HD situation, you might we moving between a few rooms, and probably in a violent situation you should really just be taking cover and calling 911. But you may have to move between rooms to secure kids, or move family to safe room, etc.
I have rucked up to 12 miles on the regular when I served with the 101st and SF (yes, as a lowly staff officer), wearing IOTV, helmet, full battle rattle, boots, weapon, and rucksack, all weighing in around 80 pounds. Rucking 12 miles in that gear takes about 2.5 hours if you are hustling. We did 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 on a rotating basis, weekly. I think I can make it across the house with little difficulty wearing a 'light' 20 pound plate carrier.
And if you run into that sniper hitting you in the side with the 7.62 then it wouldn't matter either way. But surely the military and law enforcement are smarter than you, right, and they all wear them. The numbers speak for themselves of tens of thousands of lives of those saved from wearing body armor in hostile areas.
Here's a great video for education. Soldier in Iraq hit by 7.62 sniper round right in the chest. Would have resulted in instant death. But he survived relatively unharmed due to a $100 ceramic plate. Apparently combat head shots and side shots don't occur how YOU think they do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQi7iknSKy0
Video with explanation. At 5:27 it shows the Soldier holding the ceramic plate, with a hit right on the Soldier heart. This would have instantly killed him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iINTCDJuf_k
Last edited:
I think we are arguing different things. I am all for wearing the IBA when down range, hell, I agree that we need to wear the bomb suit even though if a 155 detonates and I am within 5m I'm pretty pink mist. My argument is that you usually don't need plate carriers as a civilian.
I rucked 11 miles in full battle rattle in 90 degrees with a 70lb ruck.
And again, I am speaking about situations within 1-3m where the odds of you getting hit in places other than a plate with a 30 round capacity AK is quite high.
I rucked 11 miles in full battle rattle in 90 degrees with a 70lb ruck.
And again, I am speaking about situations within 1-3m where the odds of you getting hit in places other than a plate with a 30 round capacity AK is quite high.
Right but one of your questions was why have a Plate Carrier without plates? A plate carrier without plates isn't functionally all that different than a FLC. So if you're ok with someone having a FLC, who cares about a plate carrier without plates?
Then it just comes down to who would want a plate carrier with plates. And that's up to the people willing to spend the money on it.
leadcounsel
Moderator
Well, MB21, and others, the logic follows quite fluidly.
1. There are violent people in the world, willing to invade your homes and use guns to kill you. Happens every day in America.
2. People use guns, which shoot bullets. Bullets hitting your vitals are deadly.
3. Technology has advanced so that lightweight and affordable body armor exists to defeat common bullets. They are legal in most places, affordable, light, and easy to wear. Just like your seatbelt, or motorcycle helmet, or football helmet, or whatever else, it's a life saving piece of 'gear.'
4. Gun owners believe in self and home defense.
5. Legal self defense gun use (lethal force) generally requires that you were in fear of imminent serious harm/death. Stated otherwise, someone with a weapon (read 'gun') is attacking you. So, by default, at SOME level you are prepared to protect yourself with lethal force by using a gun, and it follows you are preparing for an armed attack. For instance, you own a gun, to protect yourself against invaders with a gun.
6. Body armor stops bullets from hitting my lungs, heart, and vitals. That is a good thing. I want to stop bullets if I am intellectually honest about my preparation to defend my home against an armed person. Much like other 'insurance' policies or equipment, if it never happens I'm happy. If it happens and it saves me, that's a win. If I get killed anyway, then it didn't matter either way.
Not sure where the disconnect is?
If your concern are hoards of marksmen with AK47s, then no amount of preps will work. Surrender your guns and live as a pacifist.
1. There are violent people in the world, willing to invade your homes and use guns to kill you. Happens every day in America.
2. People use guns, which shoot bullets. Bullets hitting your vitals are deadly.
3. Technology has advanced so that lightweight and affordable body armor exists to defeat common bullets. They are legal in most places, affordable, light, and easy to wear. Just like your seatbelt, or motorcycle helmet, or football helmet, or whatever else, it's a life saving piece of 'gear.'
4. Gun owners believe in self and home defense.
5. Legal self defense gun use (lethal force) generally requires that you were in fear of imminent serious harm/death. Stated otherwise, someone with a weapon (read 'gun') is attacking you. So, by default, at SOME level you are prepared to protect yourself with lethal force by using a gun, and it follows you are preparing for an armed attack. For instance, you own a gun, to protect yourself against invaders with a gun.
6. Body armor stops bullets from hitting my lungs, heart, and vitals. That is a good thing. I want to stop bullets if I am intellectually honest about my preparation to defend my home against an armed person. Much like other 'insurance' policies or equipment, if it never happens I'm happy. If it happens and it saves me, that's a win. If I get killed anyway, then it didn't matter either way.
Not sure where the disconnect is?
If your concern are hoards of marksmen with AK47s, then no amount of preps will work. Surrender your guns and live as a pacifist.
Last edited:
I was working in Los Angeles when the "Rodney King" riots broke out. Im sure a lot of the Korean shop owners who stood their ground to protect their property would have loved to have had plate carriers WITH plates
I got by with soft armor and an M1a.... But id have put on plates if i had em at the time
I dont think its realistic to say you will put em on to answer a knock on the door or during a home invasion. At that point it better to hide behind a few fast moving round then mess around trying to get into armor
Ive worn an assortment of armor over the years and kept it bedside when working both in Iraq and A-stan. That said i didnt wear it other then when actually working. Go to the gym... Left it behind. Go get chow.... Left it behind. But it was ready to throw on in my room, right next to my M4
I got by with soft armor and an M1a.... But id have put on plates if i had em at the time
I dont think its realistic to say you will put em on to answer a knock on the door or during a home invasion. At that point it better to hide behind a few fast moving round then mess around trying to get into armor
Ive worn an assortment of armor over the years and kept it bedside when working both in Iraq and A-stan. That said i didnt wear it other then when actually working. Go to the gym... Left it behind. Go get chow.... Left it behind. But it was ready to throw on in my room, right next to my M4
leadcounsel
Moderator
Sharkbite said:
That's a really valid point. In my lifetime, there have been a number of large scale violent disasters in the US and globally. And those violent factions are moving and developing in the USA. Roving violent gangs, and violent extremist groups are watched in major cities by the FBI and DHS. The southern borders are porous and allow nearly anyone to come into the USA.
A few minutes of research on these topics will show alarming trends that we have massive numbers of extremely violent groups and individuals in our nation.
If you are of the mindset that civil unrest can and does erupt with little notice and can sweep through and destroy cities, and that it's on the rise, then being prepared to defend your home is critical. This would especially be true when life saving medical evacuation may not be immediately available due to clogged roads or overwhelmed medical and police infrastructure.
Thanks for your service Sharkbite.
That's a really valid point. In my lifetime, there have been a number of large scale violent disasters in the US and globally. And those violent factions are moving and developing in the USA. Roving violent gangs, and violent extremist groups are watched in major cities by the FBI and DHS. The southern borders are porous and allow nearly anyone to come into the USA.
A few minutes of research on these topics will show alarming trends that we have massive numbers of extremely violent groups and individuals in our nation.
If you are of the mindset that civil unrest can and does erupt with little notice and can sweep through and destroy cities, and that it's on the rise, then being prepared to defend your home is critical. This would especially be true when life saving medical evacuation may not be immediately available due to clogged roads or overwhelmed medical and police infrastructure.
Thanks for your service Sharkbite.
armoredman
New member
Short answer - why not?
It's legal, it's not that expensive, and if my layered security is being forced, I might have time to put it on in my home. Maybe not, will have to make a literal split second decision.
In the meantime, I have an Ar500 Urban Go setup with spare mag carriers, because I can, with plates that will stop a .308 AP round.I've worn it before, and yes, it's heavy. I don't intend on "rucking" anywhere - I'm Navy, we took everything with us including the kitchen sink.
It's legal, it's not that expensive, and if my layered security is being forced, I might have time to put it on in my home. Maybe not, will have to make a literal split second decision.
In the meantime, I have an Ar500 Urban Go setup with spare mag carriers, because I can, with plates that will stop a .308 AP round.I've worn it before, and yes, it's heavy. I don't intend on "rucking" anywhere - I'm Navy, we took everything with us including the kitchen sink.