ok so this may sound like a dumb question, but why do we not like communists? i understand that they believe different from the american way of thinking but why is that so wrong? is it because we are so egocentric we cannot accept another way of life or is it that there is more to it than that? personally i love the US don't get me wrong, and i would not like to live undercommunism, but if thats the way people want to be then why do we frown on them?
why do americans hate communists?
- Thread starter conkill
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Payette Jack
New member
I agree. If you want to be a commie, go join a commune or start your own and have at it. Or go to China and join the revolution. I guarantee I won't voice the least objection.
The thing nobody talks about with respect to communism (and socialism) anymore is that they are more than economic systems, they are social and political systems as well. It isn't enough for them to be commies themselves, they want YOU to be one too, like it or not.
The thing nobody talks about with respect to communism (and socialism) anymore is that they are more than economic systems, they are social and political systems as well. It isn't enough for them to be commies themselves, they want YOU to be one too, like it or not.
Communism presupposes that the State knows what is best for the individual better than the individual himself. However, since the State is composed of individuals, this implies that there is some subset of individuals who know "what's best", and can decide for all.
How do you decide this subset? Practically, history teaches us that the most ruthless among us achieve these positions of power.
All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others.
How do you decide this subset? Practically, history teaches us that the most ruthless among us achieve these positions of power.
All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others.
America was founded by rather independent-minded folks, and that fierce independence has (more or less) bred true for the last couple of hundred years.
Communism is anything but independent. Matter-of-fact, it breeds dependency.
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the People's Democratic Republic of China are the most visible of the communist nations, and they've been enemies of the United States. By their choice, not ours.
So, you have cultures which breed a philosophy that most Americans find repugnant, and those same cultures have pointed nuclear weapons at us for longer than I've been alive.
You're asking the wrong question. The question you shold be asking is: Why don't we hate communists worse than we do?
LawDog
Communism is anything but independent. Matter-of-fact, it breeds dependency.
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the People's Democratic Republic of China are the most visible of the communist nations, and they've been enemies of the United States. By their choice, not ours.
So, you have cultures which breed a philosophy that most Americans find repugnant, and those same cultures have pointed nuclear weapons at us for longer than I've been alive.
You're asking the wrong question. The question you shold be asking is: Why don't we hate communists worse than we do?
LawDog
I lived under Communists for fourteen years. It is a real puzzle to me that they even get ANY votes or support here...I'd have much prefer to waste the lot of them as the Finns wisely did in 1919. The reason why I consider Commies worthy of termination with extreme prejudice is that they, according to their own claims, intend to take over every place that lets them. They do not respect any human rights and, from experience, I've learned to keep my muzzle pointed at the nearest representative of that disgusting ideology. IMO, they are one notch below Nazies and two notches below child molestors.
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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk
<A HREF="http://www.a-human-right.com
" TARGET=_blank>http://www.a-human-right.com
</A> not a line in the sand. That's a range marker!"
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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk
<A HREF="http://www.a-human-right.com
" TARGET=_blank>http://www.a-human-right.com
</A> not a line in the sand. That's a range marker!"
The original(ideal) concept of communism did'nt look so bad on the face of it, it was what the former USSR and Peoples Republic China have made of it.
As JimR pointed out, communism under these countries presupposes that the State knows whats best for the people.
Unfortunately, most other communist countries that formed, took up the USSR's ideology.
Being from India, I have seen what a Communist setting can do to the economy.
For most of the Eighties, and even now, some of the conditions are truly Communist.But we are making some progress.
Somehow in the last 8 years, I feel that America has moved in that(commie) direction.
So Ladies and Gentlemen, please make it a point to vote.
Regards,
Anand
As JimR pointed out, communism under these countries presupposes that the State knows whats best for the people.
Unfortunately, most other communist countries that formed, took up the USSR's ideology.
Being from India, I have seen what a Communist setting can do to the economy.
For most of the Eighties, and even now, some of the conditions are truly Communist.But we are making some progress.
Somehow in the last 8 years, I feel that America has moved in that(commie) direction.
So Ladies and Gentlemen, please make it a point to vote.
Regards,
Anand
Henry Bowman
Moderator
Great topic, it's interesting that some of the definitions of communism literally discribe the USA. Law Dog mentioned that the USSR was our enemy?? How so, we have gave them billions in cash, free wheat and corn as well as the technology they use today. Hell Ford even built their truck plant with our money so they could go kill Afganies. It's all a little too Orwellian ain't it? Our "enemys" have sold us tons of AKs yet they're supposed to be banned since 94? Both countries have favored nation status and free loans from the world bankers. BTW Law Dog, which country nuked a city of civilians? The USA created the cold war and brainwashed the masses. We still have the most powerful military on the planet but we use it to control fuel prices? Orwells novel 1984 seems to have been the "plan" eh? henry
Unlike Oleg, I have only lived for short periods in communist countries. I don't "hate" communists......I do love freedon and responsibility for my own well being.
Communism cannot exist in a world that also has free men and good communications. Therefore communism must dominate the whole world or wither.
Read the Communist Manifesto, communism relegates all power and property to the elite few who control the "State".
Re read part two of the Communist Manifesto while thinking of Gore's platform. Differences only in words used. For over a hundred and fifty years the Constitutional Republic that is the United States of America has been under attack by the communists. Under attack because we are a danger to the power of the elite who would rule.
Many are born to serve and be the protected property of masters. A few wish to be free and live by the fruits of their own labors.
"Less government, more individual responsibility."....JBS
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Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
Communism cannot exist in a world that also has free men and good communications. Therefore communism must dominate the whole world or wither.
Read the Communist Manifesto, communism relegates all power and property to the elite few who control the "State".
Re read part two of the Communist Manifesto while thinking of Gore's platform. Differences only in words used. For over a hundred and fifty years the Constitutional Republic that is the United States of America has been under attack by the communists. Under attack because we are a danger to the power of the elite who would rule.
Many are born to serve and be the protected property of masters. A few wish to be free and live by the fruits of their own labors.
"Less government, more individual responsibility."....JBS
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Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW Law Dog, which country nuked a city of civilians?[/quote]
Which country was so fanatical that when the US took one of their islands, mothers were literally hurling themselves and their newborn babies off of cliffs to avoid being catured?
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
Which country was so fanatical that when the US took one of their islands, mothers were literally hurling themselves and their newborn babies off of cliffs to avoid being catured?
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
Compromising the right position only makes you more wrong.
Keiller TN
New member
I don't object to voluntary communism. Problem is, the socialists make it forced communism. The basic flaw in socialism is that it violates the right to ownership. They and their thieving ways have shifted our government more and more to the left. They seem to have this need to have capitalisic societies that they can bleed dry before they move on to suck the productivity from another. Russia has vast natural resources, but the socialists have left that country in shambles. Karl Marx and his family lived in squaller depending on help from his industrialist friend, Engles to survive. I think a philisophy is no better than its philosopher.
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"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." (Psalm 127:1)
The Second Amendment rights have not kept pace with the First.
"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."
(Alexander Solzhenitzyn)
[This message has been edited by Keiller TN (edited October 30, 2000).]
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"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." (Psalm 127:1)
The Second Amendment rights have not kept pace with the First.
"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."
(Alexander Solzhenitzyn)
[This message has been edited by Keiller TN (edited October 30, 2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Law Dog mentioned that the USSR was our enemy??[/quote]
Cuban Missile Crisis.
Soviet and American warships bumping each other off Iceland.
Attack subs and boomers hunting each other.
Soviet funding of anti-American terror groups.
Goodness gracious, what would you call them?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW Law Dog, which country nuked a city of civilians? [/quote] Why do they always forget Nagasaki? Two cities. In Imperial Japan. During World War II. In 1945.
How this pertains to a discussion of Communism, or Soviet/American relations during the Cold War escapes me.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The USA created the cold war and brainwashed the masses.[/quote]
Ah. Of course. Josef Stalin was simply a pawn in the Vast American Conspiracy. Heavens to Murgatroyd.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hell Ford even built their truck plant with our money so they could go kill Afganies. [/quote]
I'm confused. Are you referring to the Ford plant built as part of the Lend-Lease during World War 2? Surely not.
LawDog
Cuban Missile Crisis.
Soviet and American warships bumping each other off Iceland.
Attack subs and boomers hunting each other.
Soviet funding of anti-American terror groups.
Goodness gracious, what would you call them?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW Law Dog, which country nuked a city of civilians? [/quote] Why do they always forget Nagasaki? Two cities. In Imperial Japan. During World War II. In 1945.
How this pertains to a discussion of Communism, or Soviet/American relations during the Cold War escapes me.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The USA created the cold war and brainwashed the masses.[/quote]
Ah. Of course. Josef Stalin was simply a pawn in the Vast American Conspiracy. Heavens to Murgatroyd.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hell Ford even built their truck plant with our money so they could go kill Afganies. [/quote]
I'm confused. Are you referring to the Ford plant built as part of the Lend-Lease during World War 2? Surely not.
LawDog
Apple a Day
New member
This is a question posted by someone who has never lived in a communist country or who has family still trapped in one.
Communism a good idea? Yeah, ask common people in countries like Cuba, North Korea, and China... they are living in a worker's paradise, well, minus the good food, sane work hours, bountiful goods, wonderful health care, simple freedoms like traveling and owning firearms... they're having one huge party over in those countries. They must be risking their lives to leave the wonders of communism because they are having such a good time they're afraid they might bust a gut laughing so hard. Have a nice day, comrade.
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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Communism a good idea? Yeah, ask common people in countries like Cuba, North Korea, and China... they are living in a worker's paradise, well, minus the good food, sane work hours, bountiful goods, wonderful health care, simple freedoms like traveling and owning firearms... they're having one huge party over in those countries. They must be risking their lives to leave the wonders of communism because they are having such a good time they're afraid they might bust a gut laughing so hard. Have a nice day, comrade.
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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
BadMedicine
Moderator
Hmmm, this is interesting, and please don't flame me too much, but I am actually pro-communism. please, please, let me explain.
Cuba, China, and North Korea are not TRUE communism, nor do I like their governments, or want to move their. Democracy is the best running form of government in the world today, but that's only because TRUE communism cannot work.
Communism, is, by definition, when everybody works for the good of the commune(community). Everybody works, and get's things accomplished, and all is shared. Their is niether poverty, nor great wealth. And everything is good. HOWEVER, communism will never work in more than the smallest of communities, because as with all government, somebody needs to set it up, and *run* the government, but communists are supposed to be self-governed. When you get a few people running the government, they invariably start to change things so that they may get a *little* more. This is how corruption starts. though they work not more than the rest they get more, and thus it is not being devided equally amongst the *commune.* Then, these elitists start to make rules that don't apply to them. Since they run the government now they no longer have to work, and they get paid even more, while everyone else is drivin into poverty. Then there are the people who no longer want to be communists, but they cannot stop it, because they are not one of the few who so love this system because they live above it and benefit from it. So while the lazy man skates through living off of somebody elses earnings, the hardworking man can barely feed his family because his wages are split between the Greedy, corrupt, government, and the lazy, drunk.
Yes, as a government for a country, communism is definately not the best way to go. Have you seen the beach, with leonardo decprio? This is a small communism of honest people who work together perfectly for the group. They work together, and they play together, and live happily, because nobody gets greedy and tries to live above the law. This is how a communism should work. But it don't.
In conclussion, because all good rants have one, I don't hate communism, I hate the people who have them. (ie North koreans, the chinese, and cabans.
)
Cuba, China, and North Korea are not TRUE communism, nor do I like their governments, or want to move their. Democracy is the best running form of government in the world today, but that's only because TRUE communism cannot work.
Communism, is, by definition, when everybody works for the good of the commune(community). Everybody works, and get's things accomplished, and all is shared. Their is niether poverty, nor great wealth. And everything is good. HOWEVER, communism will never work in more than the smallest of communities, because as with all government, somebody needs to set it up, and *run* the government, but communists are supposed to be self-governed. When you get a few people running the government, they invariably start to change things so that they may get a *little* more. This is how corruption starts. though they work not more than the rest they get more, and thus it is not being devided equally amongst the *commune.* Then, these elitists start to make rules that don't apply to them. Since they run the government now they no longer have to work, and they get paid even more, while everyone else is drivin into poverty. Then there are the people who no longer want to be communists, but they cannot stop it, because they are not one of the few who so love this system because they live above it and benefit from it. So while the lazy man skates through living off of somebody elses earnings, the hardworking man can barely feed his family because his wages are split between the Greedy, corrupt, government, and the lazy, drunk.
Yes, as a government for a country, communism is definately not the best way to go. Have you seen the beach, with leonardo decprio? This is a small communism of honest people who work together perfectly for the group. They work together, and they play together, and live happily, because nobody gets greedy and tries to live above the law. This is how a communism should work. But it don't.
In conclussion, because all good rants have one, I don't hate communism, I hate the people who have them. (ie North koreans, the chinese, and cabans.
)BadMedicine
Moderator
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Apple a Day:
simple freedoms like .....owning firearms...
[/quote]
HEHE, what country do you live in??
simple freedoms like .....owning firearms...
[/quote]
HEHE, what country do you live in??
conkill,
It's really simple. It's the same reason we don't like the Clinton Communist Regime and refuse to vote for the Gore Communist Party. You see, that's what communism is. Telling the people what to do and when to do it. That's where we're heading in this country. You see, the government wants our guns, because they know that without them, we are defenseless and have to accept their bulls**t. With them, we are a formidable foe and will resist this type of communism the same way we fought against communism in other parts of the world.
Free men will fight to stay FREE MEN!
Pretty simple!
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"Charlton Heston is my President"
Danny45
NRA, NAHC, Buckmasters
It's really simple. It's the same reason we don't like the Clinton Communist Regime and refuse to vote for the Gore Communist Party. You see, that's what communism is. Telling the people what to do and when to do it. That's where we're heading in this country. You see, the government wants our guns, because they know that without them, we are defenseless and have to accept their bulls**t. With them, we are a formidable foe and will resist this type of communism the same way we fought against communism in other parts of the world.
Free men will fight to stay FREE MEN!
Pretty simple!
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"Charlton Heston is my President"
Danny45
NRA, NAHC, Buckmasters
I'm not a bee, I'm not an ant; I don't live in a coloney nor hive....I've got a life of maybe 80 yrs. That life is mine and those whom I accept into it...it is my life and will be spent on how I chose; not according to someone(s) who will dictate on how my life is used and who will live in luxury because of mine and others lives.
We get 70-80+ yrs folks and thats it...human lives aren't disposable bars of soap....and thats how communists operate.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
We get 70-80+ yrs folks and thats it...human lives aren't disposable bars of soap....and thats how communists operate.
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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
conkill,
Name one country where Communism has come into power through the ballot box. The problem with Communism is that in order for it to be maintained, the rulers have to use force to keep it around. That is why we hate it. It is the opposite of what we believe.
madison
Name one country where Communism has come into power through the ballot box. The problem with Communism is that in order for it to be maintained, the rulers have to use force to keep it around. That is why we hate it. It is the opposite of what we believe.
madison
Marko Kloos
Inactive
Communism is mysticism in an altruist costume, replacing the theocratic "the will of God" with the socialist "the welfare of the State/society", where both of these are usually exactly what the ruling class determines them to be.
The main flaw with communism aside from that is that it doesn't respect the individual right to personal property, which is a necessary ingredient to a just and progressive society. Also, the point that communism can never sustain itself at the ballot box without the guns of the state acting as "encouragement" only shows that communism is as anti-freedom as fascism and most other -isms. In order to maintain the ideology, the proponents of communism soon have to discard justice and social progress. Communism has piled up a much higher body count than fascism in the 20th century, just because it lacks even the mystical underpinnings of fascism which made it appealing to many Germans. Sooner or later, communist governments have to break out the guns to preserve doctrine.
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"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice." -- Albert Einstein
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Glock/Benelli/Enfield -- the all-purpose threat management system.
The main flaw with communism aside from that is that it doesn't respect the individual right to personal property, which is a necessary ingredient to a just and progressive society. Also, the point that communism can never sustain itself at the ballot box without the guns of the state acting as "encouragement" only shows that communism is as anti-freedom as fascism and most other -isms. In order to maintain the ideology, the proponents of communism soon have to discard justice and social progress. Communism has piled up a much higher body count than fascism in the 20th century, just because it lacks even the mystical underpinnings of fascism which made it appealing to many Germans. Sooner or later, communist governments have to break out the guns to preserve doctrine.
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"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice." -- Albert Einstein
---
Glock/Benelli/Enfield -- the all-purpose threat management system.
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