Why Carry????????

T

threegun

Moderator
I was reading an article in handguns magazine. The Tacoma mall shooting. This crazy man walked in the mall and started shooting people. A mall employee pulled his own gun but wouldn't fire and just allowed the badguy to open fire seriously wounding him.


Why carry if you aren't willing to use it?
 
There may have been other variables to be considered, such as people in the background etc, Alot of people carry but the truth is we don't really know how we are going to react when the time comes, we can talk alot of mess of how we would drill the bad guy, but hey man, in reality some people freeze.
 
There may have been other variables to be considered, such as people in the background etc, Alot of people carry but the truth is we don't really know how we are going to react when the time comes, we can talk alot of mess of how we would drill the bad guy, but hey man, in reality some people freeze.
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All good points. I would also add that many folks don't fully consider the responsibilities, necessities, and consequences of using a gun in self-defense before they start carrying. I've met people who think just displaying a gun will protect them; some of those folks don't even have ammo, either on them or at home. They want to scare off BGs but don't want to hurt anyone. They seem surprised to find out that there are BGs who don't scare so easily.
 
I heard the guy wasn't sure of his legal situation for shooting the criminal and it cost him.
 
+1 P38.

You had better have your mind made up that you will shoot if you have to...looong before the situation presents itself. Someone packing just planning for the BG to turn tail may have a very cruel surprise some day. Get your butt out to the range and practice REAL CCW shooting, have confidence that you WILL hit what you aim at, get your head in the law if you have ANY doubt of what you can and can't do legally, and make up your mind NOW you WILL do what it takes to win.
 
if the situation presented itself...I probably would have fired. From what I've read, .40 165g. shoks don't have over-penetration, but who knows....I wasn't there and therefore can't give an accurate account of how it went down.:eek:
 
Just an update. The goodguy drew and positioned himself in a defensive posture but then tucked the gun back in his waistband. He also had the badguys back briefly. He said "I'm looking at this guy, he's a kid. I would have had to shoot him in the head". After the two made eye contact he said to the badguy "I think you need to put that gun down, young man".

So he gets involved and is armed but refuses to shoot this guy and it cost him. After the badguy opened fire on him he said "I felt like an idiot". To make things worst, after being riddled with 762x39 fire, the goodguy tried to crawl after the badguy to try and stop him from hurting others:confused:. Yes after failing to shoot this guy before he himself was shot, he tried to get shot again, I guess.
 
Who really knows just exactly how they will act when presented with a situation such as this? You can say "I'd like to think I would shoot" all you want but until the adrenaline starts pumping and the matter becomes life and death you just don't know. The dude was probably a little distracted from his heart trying to thump it's way out of his rib cage.

On the other hand, i'd like to think I would shoot.:cool:
 
Who really knows just exactly how they will act when presented with a situation such as this?
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True. However, for the folks I mentioned--who either haven't thought things through first or are hoping to scare off BGs--owning a firearm is a mistake, as it gives them a false sense of security that puts them at greater risk. They'd be better off thinking about ways to hide and/or escape and contacting the police. Their problem isn't that they don't know IF they will shoot a BG; their problem is that they have already decided NOT to shoot before they ever run into a BG.
 
I'd think that I'd be MORE likely to shoot if I was in his shoes than if I was confronted by a mugger. In the mall, it was a clear justified shoot. This guy was mowing people down and there was plenty of witnesses to that. If you shoot a crackhead who's got you at gunpoint in a dark alley, there are no witnesses and if the crackhead survives you know he's going to play the victim.
 
Shooting a innocent person would be my greatest concern, I can imagine some people hit the deck, but others could be running for cover and cross your line of fire. In that situation and aided by hind sight it would be worth the risk.
 
Walt Rauch had a recent article that analyzed it will. I opine (and since I wasn't there - this opinion is worth spit), that the gentleman failed tactically and wasn't ready to answer the question of whether he would take a life.

Ayoob, IIRC, discusses this is in LFI. You need to be able to pull the trigger when the situation arises.

Many factors enter in to it and I would caution against putting total stock into an after the fact analysis by the gentlemen. Memories fail and realities are created to explain subconscious processes.

Did he think of legal risks? Did he freeze at the moment? Hard to know.

I've seen it in force on force. In a class with an excellent trainer and friend Steve Moses - I saw a martial artist unable to act against an upcoming opponent and land on his ass as he stumbled backwards. Two women were in a scenario. One later admitted that she couldn't pull the trigger and the other was felt the warrior instinct and did with little hestiation (it was a good shoot).

Farnham says you have to act. Sometimes you make the wrong choice. But freezing doesn't help - even if it is a biologically built reaction. Cognitively deciding to hide might be ok.
 
"EASY to Comment, but REALLY Hard to say..!

If YOU haven't been "IN THE MIDST OF IT PERSONALLY..";
You've really got No idea what it's like, or where your mind goes..!
No one does know or will know until they have been, or end up
"Right Amongst It..!"
He did right; He did wrong, who REALLY KNOWS; apparently he thought
he did the right thing.
I hope none of you get into a bad mess like that!
(Trust me & others here undoubtedly, it sucks to be in those shoes..!)
No further comments on that...

(Quote From the master of the obvious...!)

My .02 cents worth,

(erh)
 
Ok now I'm curious, if I were in that situation and fired on the BG and put him down ? but hit a bystander in the process . where would I be Legally :confused:
 
Ok now I'm curious, if I were in that situation and fired on the BG and put him down ? but hit a bystander in the process . where would I be Legally
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Ok, I guess I will answer this question for the third time.
Criminally the BG killed the bystander not you. In civil court anything can happen. Know your target and what is beyond it.
 
Glenn,
Cognitively deciding to hide might be ok.
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Especially going against a high powered rifle with only a pistol. My problem is that this guy didn't hide, he started to act then quit......and it almost got him killed.

Blackwater ops, Another concealed carrier drew on this same badguy but couldn't fire because of fear of hitting friendlies. This happened in the parking lot before the badguy entered the mall. Sounds like he maintained awareness of the area and did the right thing.

As for reaction, while training in martial arts I often asked why we practice the same repetitive motions to block/punch ect. Then somebody swings on you and without thought you block and punch.......question answered. Train often. Repeat drawing and firing (even dryfire), when the crap hits the fan you will draw and fire without hesitation or thought.....just reaction. It happened to me just like that except I didn't have to fire (thankfully). Having time to think before hand might change things but I haven't gotten into that situation yet. I can just prepare my mind not to freeze.
 
Go ahead, shoot me

A friend of mine spent a night in jail due to a DWI. He's hispanic, and he ran into several very hardened hispanic gang bangers from his neighborhood while spending his wonderful evening incarcerated. During conversation, the MS-13 guys stated that when someone draws on them, they better shoot to kill or the banger will not hesitate to f**k up anyone who threatens him. My friend and I have discussed the incredible danger of producing a firearm without the commitment to use it against people who are very used to violence of all kinds. No one can completely predict how one will react in a situation, but unless you are prepared to use it, don't even carry a firearm. Whichever post said it is a false sense of security if you are not prepared to shoot is right.
 
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