Why buy a gun with a decocker??

Either carry (1) cocked and locked SA, or (2) a decocked DA/SA.
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What about DAO?

A decocked DA/SA would have a relatively long and hard trigger pull - for the first shot. After that, additional shots would have a short, "easy" trigger pull. Wouldn't that tend to make it much easier to "accidentally" fire again after the first shot? If you were really "nervous", wouldn't it be easier to accidentally "touch" the trigger?

Actually my next semi-auto will likely be DA/SA. I just think DAO is slightly safer for those new to semi-autos.

Logistar
 
Thanks for some great comments.

You have made some fantastic comments and I understand the appeal of the SA/DA firearm much better. As a cocked and locked guy, many of the comments make sense and I hadn't thought of them that way. Thank you.

One question that comes to mind is for the people that "don't want to mess with a safety'. It seems like a Glock with the safety integrated into the trigger would be an ideal solution. -just pull that trigger and it takes care of the safety. Of course, it doesn't address many of the other concerns expressed.
 
PD's have decockers for decreased liability in the chance the an AD occurs. Decockers are a nice "option" in a couple of ways....
One is the just come across as "cool" to some people...the same guys who let there slide go are the range..."snap"
The other is if you arnt familiar with "riding the hammer home" or manually decocking a gun with a traditional hammer/trigger setup.

I think a decocker is a BAD idea for a new shooter....I grew up learning to manually decock every gun I shot and think it should be part of "basic" handling learned by a shooter. Decockers are
a mechanical safety and there are some pretty full proof designs out there...Sig, Taurus etc. But always keep in mind they are a mechanical function and are not full proof. I think they are nice for a 7th or 8th gun in your safe...the first should always have a traditional trigger to learn proper handling with.

shoot well
 
A similar question would be, why is there chocolate and vanilla?

Different people have different tastes and needs. I have 1911's, Glocks, a Beretta 92F, a Mak, etc. I have all the bases covered. :) If you're going to carry, I'd suggest that you pick an action style and stick with it, since that's the gun you'll practice with. Once you've developed your muscle memory for a particular action type, it will be second nature. If it's a C&L 1911, removing the safety won't be an issue, since you'll have drilled for 1000's of reps.

LEO requirements, as previously mentioned, are significantly different than personal defense. It's quite likely that a LEO will have his gun out many times where it's not fired, and the DA trigger pull is most likely a good thing. OTOH, the typical defensive gun will be deployed a few times in the lifetime of the carrier. The key to gun handling skills for anyone is practice, action type comes in somewhere way behind this requirement.
 
John made a good point. If all I owned/carried were SA auto's, it wouldnt be an issue. But like John, I have all types, DA rvolvers, SA revolver, DOA autos, DA/SA's and a few SA autos. Depending on dress and weather, I might be carrying a snubbie revolver one day and a full size Glock the next. I prefer that the guns I carry all work the same..to the extint of "draw, front sight, press, repeat" anyway. I know they dont work exactly the same, but the same process is required to get off the first shot. If all I owned were 1911's and Hi-powers, and that was all i shot when I went to the range, I'm sure remembering the safety wouldnt be an issue.
 
Logistar wrote:

A decocked DA/SA would have a relatively long and hard trigger pull - for the first shot. After that, additional shots would have a short, "easy" trigger pull. Wouldn't that tend to make it much easier to "accidentally" fire again after the first shot? If you were really "nervous", wouldn't it be easier to accidentally "touch" the trigger?
Click to expand...

The idea is that once the first shot is fired, then the extra margin of safety provided by the DA trigger is no longer needed. That is, if you fire once, you are in "danger" mode and the gun should switch to SA mode automatically. This is a feature, not a drawback...
 
If you are decocking a 1911, you need your brain examined. It is a stupid, unsafe practice.

All these different configurations are nice because they let a person get exactly what suits them. I thought they were neat at first, but have gradually lost interest in anything but single action semi-autos. That's just personal preference, though... to each their own & all that. :D
 
I have to second the opinion of Castle Bravo above.

1911s were not intended to be decocked. I cannot ever remember decocking a loaded 1911. Why would anyone think they needed to do this?
 
Logistar wrote:

A decocked DA/SA would have a relatively long and hard trigger pull - for the first shot. After that, additional shots would have a short, "easy" trigger pull. Wouldn't that tend to make it much easier to "accidentally" fire again after the first shot? If you were really "nervous", wouldn't it be easier to accidentally "touch" the trigger?
Click to expand...

I was a police officer up until about twenty years ago. At that time the only weapons we were allowed to carry were .357 or .38 DA revolvers; for duty or as a backup. We had to qualify on the range with every gun we intended to carry and, even on the range, we were not allowed to fire single action.

The idea was that we had to qualify the same way that we had to shoot on duty. And we weren't allowed to manually cock the gun because of the extreme change in trigger pull. The idea was that in, the heat of battle, there would be a tendency to "take up" a little bit on the trigger. That's a fairly common practice firing DA but it tends to make things go BANG if the hammer is already back. Cocking the hammer was an automatic DQ during qualifications and a violation of SOP on duty.

BTW, after learning how to pull the trigger properly most of us scored better firing DA anyway. And I don't remember anybody firing significantly better shooting SA. (Which we frequently tried when we weren't actually qualifying. Rebels that we were!) :D

Just to keep the record straight, I never thought we should have been limited to revolvers. At the same time, my (pre-BS) S&W models 19 and 36 served me well. But since leaving the PD I've added about 20 semi-autos and I haven't bought another revolver. (I decided I don't like trying to hide the thickness of the cylinder.) I have SA, DA/SA, and DAO pistols and my four favorite pistols to shoot include all three flavors. But because I own and shoot so many different guns, some with safeties some without, some safeties go up some go down, the only guns I actually carry are all DAOs.

Tom
 
ump45 wrote:

The idea is that once the first shot is fired, then the extra margin of safety provided by the DA trigger is no longer needed. That is, if you fire once, you are in "danger" mode and the gun should switch to SA mode automatically. This is a feature, not a drawback...
Click to expand...

I'll agree that after the first shot you no longer need a mechanical safety but I still think that switching from a heavy trigger pull to a light pull while you are in the "danger" mode increases the risk of an AD.

For target shooting it's a feature, for self defense ... I'll exercise my right to disagree.

Tom
 
cocked nd locked

In 20 years of service I have never seen the 1911 carried in condition 1, and I doubt that all these people were carring in condition 3. So there are a lot of crazy GIs that were getting the hammer down somehow.
 
I know, I know, finger off the trigger till you need it.
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I don't agree with this. If I was an LEO, and I'm holding a BG at gun point, I'd rather have my finger on the trigger than sitting outside the trigger guard.

And if my finger is going to be on the trigger, I'd rather have the long first pull so there wouldn't be an accidental discharge. (i.e. the BG attempts to break free to escape)
 
I didn't buy a Sig for the decocker. The Decocker came with an excellent firearm.

Some people are too intimidated by a SA design for whatever reason. The Decocker allows people to load and charge a weapon without needing to ride the hammer down. That's a dangerous thing to do for a novice.

I love my 1911's and I love My Sigs. Two systems for two purposes.
 
Why buy a gun with a decocker??

So Lorena Bobbit can change her M.O.?

:D :D :D


NO! NO!!! PLEASE don't revoke my posting privileges, you dear, sweet and infinitely compassionate moderators! I swear I won't do it again!
 
I think I have the answer to what I think you're asking. :)

Why carry in "DA-first-shot, SA-all-follow-up-shots" mode?

Good question, and I believe the answer is:

Because of the adrenaline factor mentioned when the SHTF, and you are actually aiming at a BG but not fully sure whether firing is warranted (such as when an LEO holds a suspect at gunpoint or when a civilian is pointing at a contact-weapon-wielding BG who is beyond 21 feet but possibly closing), one wants a longer, safer, DA trigger for that first shot, to minimize the chance of an AD.

BUT, once the first shot has been sent flying by a DA pull, then that means you have made the conscious decision to shoot to protect your life (or the life of another), and therefore you will want to incapacitate the aggressor. How does one do this? Shooting as rapidly as possible until the aggressor goes DOWN - how does one do this? - short SA pulls will help. No need to worry about safety at that point - in fact, you want to be as "unsafe" as possible towards the violence-threatening aggressor once you have made that deadly decision.

Long answer to simple concept, I know, but I demonstrated the "shooting justification" aspects as well.

PS. Don't EVER try to manually lower the hammer on a live round, IMO, unless it's a revolver and you have no other choice, in order to unload. If it's an SA-only, rack that baby to eject for cleaning, or carry cocked and locked. If you must carry with the hammer down, then I would suggest empty chamber carry is the best, IMO.
 
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originally posted by Alerion:

I'll agree that after the first shot you no longer need a mechanical safety but I still think that switching from a heavy trigger pull to a light pull while you are in the "danger" mode increases the risk of an AD.

For target shooting it's a feature, for self defense ... I'll exercise my right to disagree.
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I agree, that's a completely valid and sound argument on your side. My counter-argument is that if a gun owner trains and practices with a DA/SA handgun, then this risk will become so small as to be negligible.

Alerion, one common argument against SA guns is that the owner may forget to flip the safety off in an emergency. The counter-argument is the same. If a gun owner trains and practices, this risk becomes very small.
 
I did not really care for DA/SA pistols for a long time and still don't to tell the truth. However, I carry one daily as this particular pistol feels good in my hand, shoots pretty good when I do my part, and is chambered in my favorite caliber. Do I wish I could carry it Condition One? Hell yes. But a DA pull on the first round does not bother me as much as it used to. The three Rs of learning I guess, repetition, repetition, repetition.
 
Well, for all the supposed lousiness of DA trigger pulls, I happen to shoot them just fine. I can't remember the last time I thumbed the hammer back on any of my DA wheelguns that don't have a scope attached (...and I even shoot that one DA a lot).

That's why my current bedside gun is a DAO Beretta 96D; it functions essentially like a 12-shot .40 cal revolver.

I'll say this, though; anybody can shoot a light SA trigger half-decently, but many folks today just don't seem to want to put in the time it takes to be competent with a DA trigger. "You can't hit anything with that long, heavy trigger pull!"; whine, whine, whine instead of practice, practice, practice...
 
Well, heck, you can swim the English Channel without flippers if you like, but why, when excellent flippers are so readily available???

That said, I much prefer DAO guns to DA/SA guns. SA guns are still best of all.

- Chris
 
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