Why Aren't There More Small Frame 6 Shot Revolvers?

There is a very marginal difference between the Bulldog frame, and the J frame. Not even enough to make a difference.
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Quantify that diffence. Then square it.... that still doesn't equal the imortance of the critical dimension here: The 6 shot .38 clyinder is TOO FAT for the j-frame. Maybe not enough for you to eyeball and consider significant, but S&W's engineers tried and could not make it work reliably and safely .....


... and if it were possible, AND here was a demand for it such that further R&D would be rewarded with a nice profit, then the market would have made it happen, don't you suppose?
 
I have a snub nosed K frame model 10. It's the perfect size, but a little heavy.

Make the same gun with an alloy and you've got a winner.
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Or you could carry 5 shots in a J-frame, the perfect size, unless referring to belt carry.;)
 
I have to wonder if S&W is capable of building a sub $500 revolver.

There is the inertia of 5 shot bug guns being the standard for a couple generations. Serving the remaining marginal demand is Charter Arms' niche. It seems that guns need to be smaller and lighter in greater numbers these days, as younger people wear a minimum of clothing and which is not well suited to concealment of a "real gun".
 
As a guy who daily carries a 5 shooter, I'd rather carry 5 than go with a bigger cylinder. If I though having that extra round was more than an very extreme shot of making the difference in my life or death, I'd carry an auto.
 
I have a snub nosed K frame model 10. It's the perfect size, but a little heavy.

Make the same gun with an alloy and you've got a winner.
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You mean like this one? A Model 12-2 from about 74-75.



Six shot, alloy K-frame, six shot, full size grip, K-frame trigger. A really nice carry gun.

But a lot bigger, and heavier than a J-frame 442. Which cost less than $400.00 a week or so ago.



The Model 12 has a reputation for cracking the alloy frame. How bad the problem was I have no idea. Mine works fine, although I don't shoot it a lot. I suppose that may have had something to do with Smith & Wesson dropping it, or it may have hurt sales which lead to Smith & Wesson dropping it.

Either way it is an excellent carry gun, that has now achieved "safe queen" status.
 
CajunBass said:
The Model 12 has a reputation for cracking the alloy frame. How bad the problem was I have no idea.
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I don't personally have knowledge either, but FWIW many on the S&W forum believe that the problem is overblown or even downright apocryphal. I don't have the link anymore, but IIRC one of the S&W forum members did an extended test in which he fired over 10,000 rounds of .38Spl+P through a 4" M12-2, and the gun's lockup loosened, but the frame suffered no apparent damage. :)

It's been posited that the supposed M12 frame problem was conflated with two other known issues:
  • Very early pre-M12 M&P Airweights were manufactured with alloy cylinders that are known to rupture upon firing even with "mouse phart" target loads. :eek: This problem is well documented, but the problem is the cylinder, NOT the frame.
  • J frame Airweights without the "+P" rating on the barrel (pre-1996) have been known to crack frames when fed +P loads or even too many standard-pressure loads. However, that's the J frame, NOT the K frame.
Regarding this last note, I've examined a J frame with a steel 5-shot .38Spl cylinder and a 2" barrel marked "AIRWEIGHT - .38 SPL CTG", but with a steel frame marked "M30-1" and wearing a serial number correct for a mid 1960s .32 Hand Ejector! :confused: The seller was trying to pass it off as something rare, but my theory is that it was a "gunsmith special" created by mating a barrel and cylinder from a cracked M37/38/42 to an inexpensive M30-1 frame.
 
I think it's overblown too Chris, but I think the same thing about cracked forcing cones on Model 19's. I've never seen one. I'm sure it HAS happened, but I don't think either problem is near as bad as you'll hear about on the internet.

Oh and don't forget. The Model 29 is too weak to shoot with magnum loads.
 
Ive decided Im going to buy a second Police Undercover 38. I really like this little revolver, and the extra round it carries is the reason Im going to make one of these my winter jacket carry, and take the dog out at night revolver.

I really want one of these for my wife, but I want one for myself also. Im going to find a factory SD load that shoots to POA, while I still have the spurred hammer installed, then once Im happy with the POI and accuracy, Im going to install the DAO spurless hammer that Charter offers for $25.

Here is another picture for scale... up against my DAO SP101 .357

photo%205_zpszw9tvlx3.jpg
 
This reminds of the "Why aren't there more 9mm revolvers out there" threads. Every few years Ruger, S&W and Taurus make a run of them, they must not sell very will. 2 inch K-frames and Ruger Sixes are great guns, but that carry niche has been filled with compact 9mm pistols it seems.

I have a few of the Ruger Speed six snubs. They are not a pocket carry gun, but they conceal pretty nice in a IWB holster.
 
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I started to wonder why there aren't more small frame, 6 shot .38, or .357 revolvers.

I've wondered the same thing for quite a while, especially since the relatively recent huge interest in firearms best suited for concealed carry. The best example I know of is the long discontinued Colt Cobra/Agent: here you have a revolver that weighs no more than a Smith Airweight, carries 20% more ammunition and has a cylinder that is only slightly bigger than a Smith J-frame (1.400 vs 1.309). It seems to me that such a revolver configuration would sell like the proverbial hotcakes if reintroduced today.

As others have mentioned, I think the relatively light-weight, though larger, Smith Model 12 (K-frame) would also be a good candidate for a six-shot revolver for concealed carry.

Personally, I wouldn't fire much +P ammunition through either revolver-and Smith & Wesson specifically warned against using +P ammunition through their Model 12.
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The Rossi 641 (blued) and 642 (stainless) offers a six shot snub in .357. It's a bit heavier than most snub nose carry guns at 26 ounces, but the one I owned was reliable. The gun is almost identical to a K-Frame snub. I sold the little six shooter before I began reloading and I with I had kept it. You can get some info on these guns here:

http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=138&category=1&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

I hope Ruger will consider putting out a six-shot version of their LCR. A six shot LCR in .357 with a 3 inch barrel would be a heckuva carry gun.
 
I have to wonder if S&W is capable of building a sub $500 revolver.
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<sigh>

I just bought a 642, under $400.
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Was it new? What was the MSRP? Was it six shot like the context of what you are quoting? What do you suppose they would charge if developing a new gun, a six shot snub?
 
They would charge was is a good price competitive point. When the Bodyguard revolvers came out, they were not too expensive.

I think the answers by now are pretty clear. Smith has a solid 5 shot line that sells well. You can find Colts and 432s around if you love 6 shots.
 
Was it new?
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Yes

What was the MSRP?
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Don't know, off the top of my head. But who ever pays MSRP?

Here's Bud's' listing for the no-lock version: S&W M642 5RD 38SP +P 1.87" No Internal Lock.

Was it six shot like the context of what you are quoting?
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No, but that wasn't the immediate question. "If S&W is capable of building a sub-$500 revolver" -- yes, they already do.

What do you suppose they would charge if developing a new gun, a six shot snub?
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What I wonder is why this, and the corresponding blue version, are the price they are and every other S&W wheelgun is a fair bit higher? That's why I didn't look at the S&W for a long time, because I knew most of their stuff was more expensive than I could justify spending.
 
What do you suppose they would charge if developing a new gun, a six shot snub?
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See post #9.

S&W tried it. It didn't work in 1973 when revolvers were popular. Last time I saw one for sale is was $9000 a few years ago.
 
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