Why are FFL holders trying to double charge?

[Master Blaster]

Next, we take responsibility for your guns,
both ways, and so must ship them ourselves
pay shipping and insurance and for me ,this means closing up the gun shop and driving 20 miles to the UPS terminal and arguing with the UPS staff until I get their superior,
all very tiring, and driving back 20 miles.

So I loose about two hours doing this.
Then the paperwork of two transfers which , in my state takes about an hour per gun.
All you do is sign your name, but just try filing in all the blanks corectly, most customers cant get it right, even after several tries.I know, been there and seen that happen.So, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself or stand over your customers shoulder & coach him as he fills it out.

So we have six hours labor to transfer two guns, worth about 80.oo plus shipping charges and state taxes.

I get 40.oo per gun + shipping + taxes.

I could make more money in almost any other job (it works out to 13.oo/hour) but I like
the firearms community and I fell that I am doing shooters a favor.

Since we are doing you a favor buy even remaining in the firearms business, not for the money, because it stinks,but because we like shooting....stop being such an ingrate.

The UPS guy stops every day at my two local shops, heck he even stops at my house, and if I ask nicely he will pick up a package there as well.

I think you should get out of the FFL business because obviously its a source of aggravation for you.

As far as you coaching a customer on what to put on the transfer form, did I just read you admitting to a federal felony on an open Internet forum????

 

[spacemanspiff]

ernest2, a couple of things...

First, I assume you wait until you have more than one package to take to UPS, unless you do transfers so rarely, that is.
Second, it takes you an hour to do the paperwork? Well lets see, you have to take the gun into your inventory, log it into the book, right? Last time I did that, it took me all of 5 minutes, and that was with 3 minutes of dilly-dallying around. Once its in the book, and the customer comes to pick it up, then the 4473 gets filled out. Even if I have to watch over the persons shoulder it can't take more than ten minutes to complete. Then I start filling out the shops portion, while calling NICS (unless the customer has an exemption), theres maybe 5 minutes burned.

Then I have to log the gun out of the book, another 2 minutes to fill out the customers name and date the transfer is completed.

So I can account for maybe 25 minutes of your four hours, wheres the other 3.5 hours going to again?

Wait, I forgot, you were also talking about shipping a gun out, okay, its the customers gun, it doesn't get logged into your books, so you just need shipping info, maybe you handwrite them out, I dunno, and maybe you even provide the box and shipping materials, thats like 15 minutes of dinking around getting the box that fits just right and labeling it. Where were we? Oh yeah, still under one hour.

 

[Wildalaska]

Your so efficient thats why we keep you here


WildnotforyourlooksAlaska

 

[tyme]

It's called capitalizm.

No, it's an enforced pseudo-oligopoly because only FFLs can receive firearms across state lines. The FFLs aren't the real sellers, but they're the only ones who can legally receive interstate firearms shipments to transfer to you, so the model is similar.

Capitalism is where you set up shop and offer to package, insure, ship and receive firearms for people who don't want to do that themselves.

There's not much of a market for 3rd-party shipping recipients.

 

[Ausserordeutlich]

Slingshot: Your FFL is only charging you once each for the services that you asked him to perform. It's not his fault that you weren't aware that you didn't require his services to ship a long gun out-of-state. Optimally, you would have only paid him for receiving the firearm that was shipped to you. Why would you think that he shouldn't get paid for shipping your firearm, even though BATFE regulations don't require his participation in that instance??

 

[Wildalaska]

No, it's an enforced pseudo-oligopoly because only FFLs can receive firearms across state lines.

Capitalism is where you set up shop and offer to package, insure, ship and receive firearms for people who don't want to do that themselv

Since anybody can get a license, it capitalism at its finest. Its only an enforeced psuedo oligopoly (whatever that is, but I get the inference) if folks are restricted from getting licenses.

WildlikehacksAlaska

 

[contender6030]

Ernest2-- At that rate I bet you don't do many gun transfers.

Your FFL is only charging you once each for the services that you asked him to perform. It's not his fault that you weren't aware that you didn't require his services to ship a long gun out-of-state. Optimally, you would have only paid him for receiving the firearm that was shipped to you. Why would you think that he shouldn't get paid for shipping your firearm, even though BATFE regulations don't require his participation in that instance??

As for the above statement, the dealer could be honest enough to inform the customer of this so the customer doesn't get pissed off and the dealer lose that customer's business!

 

[Don H]

Nothing like reviving a 6 year-old thread and expecting responses from the original posters.

 

[SOSARMS]

In reading some of these posts, i'm getting confused myself!!!

Maybe we need to break this down into qroups.....shipping requirements and ATF requirements....Hopefully i won't misspeak, but i'm sure the masses will correct me if i'm wrong.
Shipping:
Both UPS and USPS ( and i'm sure Fedex but i don't use them) have their own regulations who may SHIP and who may RECEIVE....NOT necessarily ATF regs, but their own due to safety and other issues. From UPS, I did get a printout of conditions, and who may send or receive, it is long and confusing, but IS IN PRINT from them....get a copy. Postal service is a little more restrictive depending on where it is going and who is sending ( an individual may send a handgun directly to a manufacturer and receive back without going through an FFL) , but again they have it in print, get a copy....
Even though only ONE individual FFL is needed to receive an interstate transfer, some dealers, due to their own reasons, will only receive from an FFL......REASON......An individual will send you his gun he wants to transfer to another buyer.....He goes through in independent shipper, MBE or Kinkos, does not supply his personal info, no internal paperwork, and hence, the receiving FFL has nothing valid to place in his A & D book, which NEEDS to e accurate. Most however do receive from you guys though.....just help us out DON'T hurt us or mke our lives miserable...
Next ATF.......
You already have spelled out the paragraphs from their website, so i won't bother to repeat them, but ATF has recently modified their policy of having to have a "in ink" copy of the dealers FFL....marked FILE COPY in some other color but black...NOW they can be faxed from dealer to dealer, signed....REASON ....With their EZCHECK web site, you can type in the FFL's info, and immediately will receive correct owner, address, expiration date, name........everything you need to verify......!!!!!!
My finger is tired, so i'll let it be.....now await to read my possible screwups.........

As far as the minute $15-25 feethat is charged for all the hassles and paperwork.....be my guest...pay the FFL fee, renewals and all the time devited and do it yourself !!!!

 

[contender6030]

Nothing like reviving a 6 year-old thread and expecting responses from the original posters

Man! I almost fell out of my chair when I read your post and realized you were correct, didn't even look at the date of the original thread start!

 

[tyme]

Since anybody can get a license, it capitalism at its finest. Its only an enforeced psuedo oligopoly (whatever that is, but I get the inference) if folks are restricted from getting licenses.

Oligopoly means a market with a few sellers, usually due to significant barriers to entry (monopoly being a market with 1 seller... oligo- means "few"). Oligopsony is a market with a few buyers (due to limited demand... monopsony is a market with 1 buyer).

Neither of those terms really applies because the FFL isn't a true buyer or seller in person-to-person transfers, but instead is a mere intermediary who never owns the product. Nevertheless, the required cooperation of a government-licensed FFL for inter-state transactions limits the market in both directions, and, like oligopolies, allows price increases both for retail sales of firearms and for "transfer fees" for person-to-person sales.

There's also a limited market of sorts for shipment, since firearm shipment from non-FFLs has to be done through private carriers, and can only be done via air transport. That keeps all ground-only carriers (though there aren't any ground-only inter-state shipping companies that I know of) out of the market. In addition, I'm not sure what the point of having a government-sponsored carrier is, when that carrier is banned from transporting certain items. Seems rather Kafka-esque to me.

I'm not sure why you think people aren't restricted from getting federal firearms licenses. I know you're familiar with current BATFE policy on issuing FFLs; specifically, you must have a storefront. That's a pretty big barrier to entry into the market for part-time dealers if you ask me.