Why are cast bullets main stream in wheel guns only

D

deerslayer303

New member
Hey Guys,
While drinking that cup of liquid motivation this morning and browsing the forum a question came to mind. Why are cast bullets main stream and commercially available in revolver rounds only? I've never seen a commercial auto loader cast round, only jacketed bullets. At first I thought it had something to do with the amount of a beating auto loader rounds take getting stripped from a magazine, plowing into a feed ramp, the nose of the bullet slamming into the top of the chamber, finally the slide slamming shut. Is my train of thought correct?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
One of the biggest fears is leading over of the gas port in the barrel, causing the weapon to malfunction. That can occur with relatively soft cast rounds, but you can now buy bullets of different hardness to combat this.
 
One of the biggest fears is leading over of the gas port in the barrel...
Click to expand...
The original poster mentioned "wheel guns", A.K.A., "revolvers". Therefore, I don't' think he is asking about gas-operated rifles...and I don't know about any gas-operated handguns...as far as I know, they are all blowback or recoil operated. There may be some obscure gas operated guns around like the automag .44 magnum (at least I think it was gas operated), but they certainly are not common.

Aside from that, there is no reason to not use cast lead bullets in auto-loading handguns...I have done it for years with 9MM, .38 Super and .45 ACP. As a matter of fact, I shoot cast lead bullets in my autoloaders (and revolvers, of course), exclusively.

I have never noticed that there are no commercially cast bullets offered for autos...but then I do not buy cast bullets, I cast my own.
 
ALOT of the guys I shoot with run cast lead in their bottom feeders. They run just fine (save for semi wad cutters in 1911s
 
I only have one bottomfeeder that I cast for, but it is getting lead bullets for certain. :) I'm loading these 45-230 cup points and HPs for my .45 Colt 1911 today.

EF94C7F5-DE5F-47D8-BD83-A6045092527F_zpsbfrazpap.jpg


BTW, I hate brass prep.
I really do.
I really really really do. :rolleyes:

'Just wanted to say that. Now I feel better. :p
 
I cast for 45 ACP, 10MM and 9MM. I thought .45 ACP was fairly common. The other rounds aren't as common to cast for but they work just fine. I find it easier to get good accuracy using plated or jacketed rounds when loading up full strength loads but have been successful loading light and medium strength loads in those rounds.
 
They aren't. Two of the most popular bullets for 45 ACP is a 230 LRN, and a 200 gr. LSWC. Many casters shoot a lot of cast 125 gr. RN bullets in their 9mm pistols. My semi-autos shoot more cast bullets than jacketed (except maybe my one Ruger 9mm that loves 124 gr JHP ammo).
 
I guess I should have clarified my post. I meant to say factory loaded ammo. I knew that there were cast bullets available to the hand loader.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
Why are cast bullets main stream and commercially available in revolver rounds only? I've never seen a commercial auto loader cast round, only jacketed bullets. At first I thought it had something to do with the amount of a beating auto loader rounds take getting stripped from a magazine, plowing into a feed ramp, the nose of the bullet slamming into the top of the chamber, finally the slide slamming shut. Is my train of thought correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are somewhat correct, at least in terms of marketing commercial ammunition to the public. It isn't that you can't use cast bullets successfully in bottom feeders, it's also that so many indoor ranges don't allow lead ammo for environmental contamination reasons that *most* "plinking" is with an FMJ or TMJ. Handloaders have been using cast pistol bullet rounds in semi-autos for a very long time, and will continue to do so for a very long time.

The 45ACP loads that Beagle linked to are a good "dual use" example where the M1917 45ACP service revolver (and other 45ACP revolvers as well) allowed a commercialization of cast bullets to be accepted by the shooting community for use in semi-autos. Back in the days when cast lead bullets were allowed for service pistol competition, cast 45 cal bullets were often the norm even with 1911s. Now service pistol is FMJ, but you'll still find a lot of shooters who do the bulk of their practicing with cast bullets.

Jimro
 
Good question !
I've been thinking about it and the only thing that comes to mind is it might be easier and thus more profitable to load jacketed ammo.
The other thing is most shooters just want jacketed ammo. At our local NRA Bullseye match league , I tried to give a fellow shooter at the range a box of 45 acp , loaded with cast 200 grain SWC , so he could finish his course (he was running short of ammo) and you would have thought the ammo was contaminated with a disease ....said he didn't want to ruin his gun with lead bullets ! Maybe demand has something to do with it ?
Gary
 
40 years ago, most shooters and many reloader believed that jacketed bullets are better and that lead bullets are old fashioned, cheapo, inferior, and foul your barrel horribly with lead within 10 rounds or less. Honestly, there was some truth to that thinking. But even back then, there were some shooters and reloaders, (mostly large-bore revolver enthusiasts), that learned that they could cast bullets that not only weren't inferior, but in many cases, we're better than jacketed bullets. Soon it was discovered that cast bullets of appropriate hardness could also work quite well in auto-pistols. But the cast bullet renaissance was largely fueled by revolver shooters. Still, there remain some shooters who haven't come out of the dark ages in that they still think, "plain-lead", bullets are junk. They will likely never believe otherwise, and since they will avoid lead bullets, they will remain ignorant. I have a brother like that. I have enjoyed casting excellent lead bullets since 1973.
 
40 years ago there were 3 kinds of lead bullet shooters. People who shot lead because that was what the factory loaded in the ammo, people who loaded factory lead bullets (swaged lead bullets) because they were cheap, and dedicated individuals who cast their own slugs, and tailored the alloy for the purposes desired.

There was, essentially, no national or even widespread producers of cast bullets for reloading. All the advantages to cast bullets were known to the casters but the rest of the people judged lead slugs on the performance of the softer swaged slugs then widely available.

Factories load jacketed for semi autos, partly because they always have, but mostly because they almost always work (feed) more reliably than unjacketed bullets.

I remember a time when ALL major US ammo makers loaded only FMJ bullets in semi auto calibers, and it was rare to find jacketed bullets in revolver calibers. Then along came Super Vel, and the start of the JHP revolution in factory ammo.

People read Keith, Skelton, and a few others, and learned the abilities of hard cast lead slugs in heavy revolver calibers, like .44 magnum, Dick Casull was working on turning the .45 Colt into a monster magnum, but hadn't gotten commercial success yet...

Those were fine times in the shooting world, and we learned a lot of things. Today people new to the sport sometimes think that we always knew it all, and can't figure out why we didn't do things the "right" way back then, but the truth is, for a lot of it, we made it up as we went.
 
Chainsaw: Its true that many 1911's don't feed SWC bullets, but a visit to a competent gunsmith can cure that, by polishing the feed ramp.My 1911's have had nothing but cast SWC bullets for the last 25 years.
 
Probably because wheelguns originally used lead bullets and tradition continued through modern times. The 45, 9 etc started with jacketed.
 
Read any instruction manual that comes with your firearm and it will likely say "do not use reloaded ammo". This would also include jacketed bullet reloads. Not your question, I realize.
That said, many shooters seem to forget that many Civil War dead and buffalo were the result of cast lead bullets. Although not readily available in most auto-loader calibers nor rifle calibers, they can certainly be used in most firearms, if desired.
If you do any metallic silhouette shooting, you'll likely need cast bullets to prevent damage to the targets. Try to find cast loads in .308 Winchester at your local gun shop.
Personally, I've started using coated bullets in most applications, since they are obtainable at reasonable prices (I've stopped doing much of my own casting, in fact). I don't hesitate to run coated (or traditionally-lubed cast) in any of my handguns or rifles. I've even run cast w/ gas check bullets (granted, not in the thousands) in my gas-gun (Hakim) with no issues. My Swiss and Swede are almost exclusive eaters of cast and coated fodder. Since I'm not pushing these loads to the extremes, I often leave off the gas checks, too. They still shoot better than I can.
In most cases, cast bullets make for enjoyable, easy-shooting, economical loads. They can also be pushed to perform well in hunting applications, if need be.

 

Attachments

  • P6260020.JPG
    P6260020.JPG
    65.6 KB · Views: 18
Last edited:
Tradition. Cast bullets have been used in revolvers since it was invented, decades before the first semiauto handgun, decades before the first jacketed bullet was created.

The jacketed bullet was probably first used in handguns because of military specs that called for a bullet that could fire hundreds of rounds without lead fouling. Since the semiauto was originally loaded with jacketed bullets both in the famous nine and forty five, tradition was upheld, just like the tradition of using lead in revolvers.

Something else to kick around in your mind, which costs more, a cast lead bullet, or a jacketed bullet? If you are putting jacketed bullets into a round rather than lead, which one will cost more, which round would sell for a higher price? which one will look prettier, more advanced and precise? How many people would buy a dull, nasty looking lead bullet when they can pick up a beautiful copper bullet instead? Don't people all over the world buy copper plated rimfire rounds by the millions, paying a little more for the copper wash than they do the plain lead?

The reason for jacketed and plated bullets in semiauto loads is more about profits than anything else. People are inclined to stay with tradition. They are more inclined to buy better looking products. There are other reasons why people are naturally going to be inclined to buy copper jacketed rounds rather than lead. Yes, the copper jacketed bullet costs more to make than lead, the jacketed bullet ammo costs more to make, but it also can be sold for a premium over lead, and if a jacketed bullet can make even one cent more profit over lead ones, it is worth it. Selling jacketed bullets instead of lead puts millions of dollars gross profits into the industry from the top to bottom.

Have you noticed a trend towards jacketed 130 grain bullets in .38 special? wonder why? because that round is a lot prettier than the 158 lead. People expect it to cost more, and it is priced a little more. They price it a bit higher than lead rounds and collect a slightly higher gross margin on them. Then, there is the slight savings in the cost of making the cores, and in many cases, they are only plated bullets, not traditional cupping and drawn.

Just like almost everything on this planet, if you ask something about a business or product, the answer will almost always be "look at the money." It might not be obvious, but no business survives without profits, and almost everything a business does is intended to increase profits at some level either in the present or in the future.

Amazon went for years without making a profit, and now they are a powerhouse. If the ammo makers and dealers can make just a half cent more per round selling premium products, meaning jacketed bullets, they will. That half cent of extra gross profit is an increase of 1%, right? any company would do anything to boost their gross margin by one percent by just altering the products a bit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top