why all the fuss over "printing"?

[Nnobby45]

.......... sometimes the shirt bunches up on the mag well when i stand up, and obviously when i bend over, the mag well protrudes from under my shirt. as long as my gun isn't visible who cares about printing? i'm not breaking any laws. i don't announce that i'm carrying but i'm not ashamed of it either.

Many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of professionals and ordinary CCW holders,alike, have taken a certain pride in concealng their firearms in a way that's even hard for other professionals to spot.

If you want to approach the subject of being armed with a gun in a less than professional and serious manner, then hopefully that's something you'll outgrow--possibly right after you're spotted by an off or on duty cop, security personnel, or even Bubba--all of whom do take the matter seriously.



Lecture over--think I'll have another Red Bull.

 

[ClydeFrog]

Det SGT James Crockett, concealment, "others unknown"...

AQT's post & pic of James "Sonny" Crockett(actor Don Johnson) with his large Bren 10 10mm pistol in a Ted Blocker Lifeline shoulder holster makes a good point. Size, fashion/clothing choices and fitness levels can all be important factors in concealing weapons & gear.
A few years ago I read a good novel, Protector, by David Martell. The main character was a former US Army special operations(CAG-Delta) soldier who went into executive protection. Martell wrote in detail about how the EP agent would tailor or modify his clothes & suits to conceal sidearms. He also explained in depth how to spot other people carrying concealed weapons.
I had a security instructor who did EP/bodyguard work. He told our class he would never wear 5.11 type pants or vests outside of training ranges and never wore any ballcaps, polo shirts, t-shirts, etc with the company logos of firearms or ammunition(Ruger, Glock, HK, Winchester, Remington, etc). He also transported his duty rifles in bags meant for baseball bats(with little league logos on them, ) and carried his training ammunition in old paint cans.
Im not sure if I'd go that far but my point is that deep concealment is the sign of good tradecraft. When I owned my NP3 plated LE surplus 96D pistol in the late 1990s, I used a black Aker shoulder holster. I noticed, like the Miami Vice Sonny Crockett character, you could conceal a large pistol even if you bent over or were turning some ways because the pistol & magazines weren't on the belt-line.
Now I'm not saying shoulder holsters or horizontal rigs are the best or that all gun owners should use them but be aware of how your firearm is concealed.

 

[Support_and_Defend]

Many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of professionals and ordinary CCW holders,alike, have taken a certain pride in concealng their firearms in a way that's even hard for other professionals to spot.

If you want to approach the subject of being armed with a gun in a less than professional and serious manner, then hopefully that's something you'll outgrow--possibly right after you're spotted by an off or on duty cop, security personnel, or even Bubba--all of whom do take the matter seriously.

Here's the deal.... 95% of the time I open carry. The 5% of the time I "conceal" I do so with my exact same OWB holster simply by taking my shirt behind the gun and placing it over the gun. 95% of the time I am wearing a polo type shirt that can be worn either tucked in or not.

Now, for the die-hard, deep concealed, no "professional" is going to see my gun people... I am assuming you wear your gun in some kind of IWB holster with the belt clip with the slot or notch in it to accept a tucked in shirt between the holster and waistband of the pants? So all you see outside the tucked in shirt is the belt clip on the belt, if you look hard enough?

Let's go to the gun range, side-by-side. Let's see who can draw their gun and get two shots on target first. The person who open carries and simply has to pull their gun out of the holster and shoot; the person who at most has to lift up an untucked shirt, pull and shoot; or the guy who has to pull up the shirt tucked in between his holster and belt, wearing a coat over that if it is cold, and then pulls the gun from an IWB holster and shoots.

In a severe self-defense situation where an extra second or two means the difference between a criminal shooting at me first or me shooting at them first, I would rather have time be on my side than to have the satisfaction of knowing my gun is well hidden as I am lying on the ground bleeding from a bullet wound.

BTW.... I don't want this to sound like I am criticizing the deeply concealed crowd. Your way is what is right for you. You have my full support. That's all that really matters. I'm just trying to explain my reasons for my method of carry.

 

[Tom Servo]

Let's go to the gun range, side-by-side. Let's see who can draw their gun and get two shots on target first. The person who open carries and simply has to pull their gun out of the holster and shoot; the person who at most has to lift up an untucked shirt

Actually, it depends on the person, and the amount of practice they've put in.

It may be a generational thing, but when I was coming up, good concealment was considered a must. As such, we practiced drawing from our setup, whatever it might have been. If I was any slower than someone of equivalent training drawing from an open-carry setup, the difference was likely too small to measure.

I have had people cite draw speed as a major reason for open carry, but I have ended up having to coach many of those people out of serious bad habits, including inefficient and/or unsafe draw stroke. I'm not saying all of them are like that, but a prevailing attitude has developed that, for some, equates open carry with an automatic improvement in survival odds.

I've spoken to too many folks who assume that a fast draw will save them. These are the same folks who don't know the difference between cover and concealment. There are many, many other variables to a gunfight than draw speed.

My attitude towards concealment has changed with the times. Even when concealed-carry reform was taking root, one could expect to get hassled by the police, regardless of the law. Officers on the street didn't (and can't possibly) know every wrinkle of the law, and they'd been conditioned by decades of training to treat a guy on the street with a gun suspiciously at best.

At that point, it was worth it to make the gun as invisible as possible. It was a big priority, and there was a lot of training around it. Generally, gratuitous printing was considered a sign of a lack of training.

Fortunately, things have changed in many areas. The police are better educated, and the populace is a bit more accepting. While I still carry "indifferently concealed," to quote Standing Wolf, I've found a good balance between comfort and a method of carry that's invisible to the average person.

 

[Nnobby45]

I'm just trying to explain my reasons for my method of carry.

I wasn't trying to address all the other stuff in your post, just the fact that printing is no big deal to you.


Carrying concealed without a proper concealment holster explains why your gun would be easy to spot.

NOTE: I don't lift up any shirts to draw. Reaching inside of and brushing back the garment that covers the gun only adds about .5 seconds.

 

[dnr1128]

NOTE: I don't lift up any shirts to draw. Reaching inside of and brushing back the garment that covers the gun only adds about .5 seconds

Which can make a big difference. A few months ago when I was taking a training course, I timed my instructor coming to me from seven yards, then timed him drawing from a hands-up position to the first shot. While I don't remember the exact times for both, I know that it was less than a half second difference. Thats for an experienced shooter drawing from an uncovered holster. Point being, the half second to brush back the garment could make a difference in some circumstances.

Until we know what the legal definition of "printing" is, its all just opinion.

 

[Nnobby45]

Which can make a big difference. A few months ago when I was taking a training course, I timed my instructor coming to me from seven yards, then timed him drawing from a hands-up position to the first shot. While I don't remember the exact times for both, I know that it was less than a half second difference. Thats for an experienced shooter drawing from an uncovered holster. Point being, the half second to brush back the garment could make a difference in some circumstances.

Until we know what the legal definition of "printing" is, its all just opinion.

The first part of your post makes sense, but, personally, I'm more concerned about just plain ol' printing so someone knows I have a gun than I am the technical legalistic jargonese.

Not to say that, in some jurisdictions, the legal definition couldn't be important.

Yes, the half second difference could make a difference in some circumstances, but so could giving your self away before the fight even starts.

 

[dnr1128]

The first part of your post makes sense, but, personally, I'm more concerned about just plain ol' printing so someone knows I have a gun than I am the technical legalistic jargonese.

Not to say that, in some jurisdictions, the legal definition couldn't be important.

Yes, the half second difference could make a difference in some circumstances, but so could giving your self away before the fight even starts.

The only time that the legal definition comes into play is when there are laws regarding it. In my state, there are none. But when i travel to a state that has the laws, I need to know what is defined as printing. The best definition I can come up with is, if someone notices that you're carrying a gun without having to look in close detail, then you're printing.

Ultimately, I, as we all, would much prefer to never get to the point where the time it takes to draw from concealment would mean life or death.

 

[Wildalaska]

Printing makes my hinkymeter begin hinkeyclicking. Armed professionals and trained, responsible gun owners dont print. Criminals, among other folks do. Consequently, the sight of a gun starts the clickclickclick in my brain

So now that hinkymeter has started hinkyclicking, I must put out my hinky feelers to determine the level of hinkeyness. That is an annoyance as it detracts from the zen like concentration I strive for.

Keep it hid, folks.

WildkeepsthehinkeyleveldownAlaska ™©2002-2010

 

[acelaw]

Printing, as in a bulge under your shirt, should be fine legally I would think. As others said, it may not be a good idea for other various red dawn scenarios

 

[darkgael]

def

What is the legal definition of printing?

I'm not at all sure that there is a "legal definition" of printing. It is a term that we use to describe a situation in which the outline of a gun or a part of the gun is visible to another person.
I cannot imagine a LEO arriving and saying that I am going to get a citation for "printing". The citation would be for carrying concealed without a permit or carrying with the gun visible when it is not supposed to be so.
Pete

 

[ET.]

Printing while CCing is like leaving your fly open while you wear pants. If your pants are there to cover up your privates then cover up your privates. If you are CCing to conceal your weapon then conceal your weapon. Don't let it print. JUST ZIP UP YOUR PANTS FOR GOD'S SAKE!

Or...

It's like when your daughter goes out on a date & you tell her to cover up... you don't just mean put material between her skin and her date's eyes. You mean you don't want her printing her assets for the world to see. No pants so tight you can count her ovaries. No nipple printing. No printing period!!!!!