Why a Pastor Carries
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Indeed, and there are verses specific to self defense....
Exodus 22:2-3
And several that imply such, including the above from Luke and also Proverbs 25:26 and others if I wasn't to lazy to look them up.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Not from a religious point of view, but a recent law book from Oxford Press, clearly analyzes the rationale for self-defense in Western law.
Killing in Self Defense (at Amazon) - pricey and dense but it clearly argues how the right to life trumps other rights. And that the right to protect yours is justified as an attacker than knowningly attacks you, lessens their own life's value and thus is not as worthy to preserve.
Interesting analyses also of whether you can kill to save yourself against the accidental killer or those not in their right mind (not to divert).
So if a person is pulling down a string of mountain climbers, can you cut their rope?
If a policeman accidentally identifies you as a bad guy when you charge in the mall to intervene in a rampage and is going to shoot, is it legit to shoot the officer?
Or should you sacrifice yourself?
In the first case, you make the terrible choice to save more lives. In the second, would a good person sacrifice themselves rather than take the life of the innocent but mistaken officer?
Killing in Self Defense (at Amazon) - pricey and dense but it clearly argues how the right to life trumps other rights. And that the right to protect yours is justified as an attacker than knowningly attacks you, lessens their own life's value and thus is not as worthy to preserve.
Interesting analyses also of whether you can kill to save yourself against the accidental killer or those not in their right mind (not to divert).
So if a person is pulling down a string of mountain climbers, can you cut their rope?
If a policeman accidentally identifies you as a bad guy when you charge in the mall to intervene in a rampage and is going to shoot, is it legit to shoot the officer?
Or should you sacrifice yourself?
In the first case, you make the terrible choice to save more lives. In the second, would a good person sacrifice themselves rather than take the life of the innocent but mistaken officer?
Saying that it's fundamentally OK to carry a gun and use it in defense of one's life, but that it's not OK in a house of worship is implying that there is something inherently evil or wrong with guns and/or using them for protection. Using a gun in self defense is either right in God's eyes. Or wrong. If it's right, it's right everywhere. If it's wrong, it's wrong everywhere.
Where I live, it's legal to carry in church, but you have to have prior permission from the pastor/priest/whoever.
Where I live, it's legal to carry in church, but you have to have prior permission from the pastor/priest/whoever.
warrior poet
New member
I will use an old quote here, and I wish I could remember the source, but here goes, "...sometimes a shepard needs to take up the stick to defend the flock..."
p.s. I know a rabbi that carries (and teaches Krav Maga) so I find it perfectly normal in a pastor doing likewise.
p.s. I know a rabbi that carries (and teaches Krav Maga) so I find it perfectly normal in a pastor doing likewise.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
http://www.bible-history.com/links...._name=Manners+&+Customs&subcat_name=Shepherds
Lots of shepards using their staff for protection and other interesting sheep stuff.
Lots of shepards using their staff for protection and other interesting sheep stuff.
matthew261
New member
Pistol Packing Episcopal Priest
I've been a firearms enthusiast since I was 7 years old, I've legally carried for 20 years and I'm an avid hunter. However, as a clergy person, I generally avoid mentioning the CCW because of the heartburn it seems to cause some folks.
Blessings to you my friend in your pursuits, life and ministry!
I've been a firearms enthusiast since I was 7 years old, I've legally carried for 20 years and I'm an avid hunter. However, as a clergy person, I generally avoid mentioning the CCW because of the heartburn it seems to cause some folks.
Blessings to you my friend in your pursuits, life and ministry!
Frank Ettin
Administrator
It's interesting to note that Roman Catholic doctrine supports self defense. From the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church(footnotes omitted):
I would have thought the soul would get that honor.
Try carrying a gun at the Vatican. Mother church has been pro-gun control for many years.
If this is a doctrinal question, why not send it up to whatever convocation of elders makes that call?
If the answer comes back in your favor fine. If it doesn't then do what religious folks have done for centuries, split off from the church and form your own sect.
Once someone invokes the "god is on my side" argument you'd think they'd carry it to its logical conclusion.
And yet, Buzzcook, the Vatican still employs the Swiss Guards. They have breastplates and halberds for show, but their personnel also have pistols, SMGs, and rifles.
So it would seem the Pope and the College of Cardinals must believe there is something to self-defense... but only if they control it.
Kind of like the government higher-ups who have their own security details, or who have carry permits although their constituents may not be able to get same.
So it would seem the Pope and the College of Cardinals must believe there is something to self-defense... but only if they control it.
Kind of like the government higher-ups who have their own security details, or who have carry permits although their constituents may not be able to get same.
Sigasaurus Rex
New member
When I was in Lutheran Sunday school way back in the day, we had a pastor from Sweden who was a committed pacifist and against gun possession in all of its forms. She often forgot the cases of Martin Luther King and Ghandi, both committed pacifists who met their respective ends due to the gun. I left Christianity and have not had any contact with the Lutheran church for a number of years. Is a pacifist viewpoint part of Lutheran doctrine as a whole or is it up to individual pastors and church members to reach their own conclusions? At the time I was in the Lutheran church, I was still a teenager and not really inclined to investigate such questions.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Do you mean Lutheranism or Lugeranism?
The latter would seem to support gun rights.
Sorry -
On a historical note...
... at one time, the leading political figure among Lutherans was Gustavus Adolphus.
He was one of the more enlightened monarchs of the era, but he was no pacifist. He was one of the best strategists in history, but he died while leading a cavalry charge.
... at one time, the leading political figure among Lutherans was Gustavus Adolphus.
He was one of the more enlightened monarchs of the era, but he was no pacifist. He was one of the best strategists in history, but he died while leading a cavalry charge.
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