Whose bushing dies- any differences?
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Bushing 338 LAPUA MAG
338 LAPUA MAG
.361-.369 is what Redding has for the range. http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/58-bushing-range-chart You really need to measure a loaded rounds neck diameter. Find the smallest diameter and pick a bushing .002" smaller. Bushing come in 2 types, Heat treated steel and Titanium Nitride surface treatment. Both will need the necks lubed on the outside. If you use the expander, lube inside the neck also. Or buy a carbide button. The S die, without a bushing, will not size the neck. If you have a standard FL die, then your good to go to check neck diameter of a loaded/dummy round.
338 LAPUA MAG
.361-.369 is what Redding has for the range. http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/58-bushing-range-chart You really need to measure a loaded rounds neck diameter. Find the smallest diameter and pick a bushing .002" smaller. Bushing come in 2 types, Heat treated steel and Titanium Nitride surface treatment. Both will need the necks lubed on the outside. If you use the expander, lube inside the neck also. Or buy a carbide button. The S die, without a bushing, will not size the neck. If you have a standard FL die, then your good to go to check neck diameter of a loaded/dummy round.
Thanks, gentlemen.
I need some more caffeine this morning to get the synapses firing...
Bushings look like they size the neck from the outside (the cartridge neck slides up inside the die)- how can this account for what is an unknown thickness of the brass at the neck?
What I'm not getting is, a typical sizing die uses an expander ball inside the neck. How can I know a bushing size, without the thickness of the brass at the neck ( a variable) being part of the equation?
I need some more caffeine this morning to get the synapses firing...
Bushings look like they size the neck from the outside (the cartridge neck slides up inside the die)- how can this account for what is an unknown thickness of the brass at the neck?
What I'm not getting is, a typical sizing die uses an expander ball inside the neck. How can I know a bushing size, without the thickness of the brass at the neck ( a variable) being part of the equation?
You need to know the neck wall thickness. Two of them plus bullet diameter minus .002" equals bushing diameter. Usually. Sizing the fired case neck down a bit ends up with it springing back out a little. With the right amount of sizing, it'll end up with its mouth diameter about .001" less than bullet diameter. Bullet diameters vary for a given caliber. I've seen a .0025" spread across 30 caliber match bullets. No idea what 33 caliber ones have. You have to measure your stuff then get the right bushing; or 3 or 4 in different sizes if needed.
Sometimes, brass metal properties will vary enough that a bushing .001" either side of that will be best. Which is why I've got 308 Win. full length dies with necks honed out in .001" increments from .331" to .337" to use on different makes/lots of cases.
Sometimes, brass metal properties will vary enough that a bushing .001" either side of that will be best. Which is why I've got 308 Win. full length dies with necks honed out in .001" increments from .331" to .337" to use on different makes/lots of cases.
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A builder of very fine and accurate bench rest type rifles called and said one of his new proud owners of one of his rifles complained about the neck in the chamber was 'too loose'. And I always have to ask "Accuracy?". The answer is always 'one hole group'.
I boxed up a few dies for different purposes, I left my no name lube at home and went for a visit. I formed cases for his creation, I reduced the clearance between the chamber neck and case neck from .008" to .003". I did nothing to improve accuracy.
F. Guffey
I boxed up a few dies for different purposes, I left my no name lube at home and went for a visit. I formed cases for his creation, I reduced the clearance between the chamber neck and case neck from .008" to .003". I did nothing to improve accuracy.
F. Guffey
I guess there's no choice but to put the cart before the horse, somewhat- since you can't produce a loaded round to measure, without a die and bushing to start with. I'll measure the bullets (300 SMK and 285 Amax) when they come in a few days and the case necks and then order the dies and bushings.
Finding the bushing size needed.
Take a factory new case and see if a bullet has neck tension when inserted nose first. If it does, push bullet in far enough to expand the neck. Then take a measurement. No die needed. Its also possible to make a loaded round, but takes to long to explain it.
Take a factory new case and see if a bullet has neck tension when inserted nose first. If it does, push bullet in far enough to expand the neck. Then take a measurement. No die needed. Its also possible to make a loaded round, but takes to long to explain it.
Find a rifle with a loose barrel. I hear it all the time, a reloader exceeds the maximum load by 2 grains then claims the rifle handles like a doll buggy.
A friend sent a rifle back, he could not shoot maximum loads. When he got the rifle back he could shoot maximum but the accuracy went with the tight barrel.
F. Guffey
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Did I mention that the Lee Collet neck die doesn't care what the case neck wall thickness is? When you buy that fancy Redding Type S Bushing Die and a sack of bushings, go ahead and buy a Collet Die (very inexpensive). Compare the accuracy. Might surprise you. I've got both, and the Redding is back in the box.
I've heard that story a few times. So what do you think is the explanation? I've never had a Lee collet die, so I'm not really sure how they work.
I do have a 40 year-old Lee target loader they don't make anymore, in .243. It made one hole ammo for a factory Rem. 600 I had back then. It was an interesting little tool, just way too slow for me. But I'm not sure how it worked either.
You hammer the brass into the sizer, then, while in the sizer, you ream the inside of the neck.....then charge then straight line seat. I wonder if it was only neck sizing....I don't remember crimps nor collets.
I do still have it.....think I'll get it out and read the instructions again.
Interesting thread here.
I do have a 40 year-old Lee target loader they don't make anymore, in .243. It made one hole ammo for a factory Rem. 600 I had back then. It was an interesting little tool, just way too slow for me. But I'm not sure how it worked either.
You hammer the brass into the sizer, then, while in the sizer, you ream the inside of the neck.....then charge then straight line seat. I wonder if it was only neck sizing....I don't remember crimps nor collets.I do still have it.....think I'll get it out and read the instructions again.
Interesting thread here.
Well I'm not qualified to know about bullet tension using the Lee Target Loader, having used it only once 40+ years ago, and I didn't even think about pushing on the bullets!
My bolt action sure didn't seem to mind, whatever the tension was!
I think the perfect dies aren't built yet, since bushing dies only partial size the necks and the bushings float loosey.
Bert's statement about Forster would seem to indicate that they offer something closer to perfect:
A gentleman posting on THR, who was looking to have them ream one of his Forster sizers was told by someone at Forster:
So using that data:
.308 caliber: Maxing the ream at .333" -(.012"x2 neck thickness) = .309".
Your target would be .306 (.002" under bullet size). So with that neck wall thickness you want to ream only to .330"
With .014" necks however, you might have a problem....as they would have to ream .334". How common is a neck thickness of .014? I wonder if a whole .001 more would really cause an "out-of-round" problem?
.223 caliber: Maxing the ream at .248"-(.0012x2 neck thickness) = .224". Your target (.002" under bullet size) would be .221". So with that neck wall thickness you need to ream only to .245". In this case .014" walls would again increase the needed ream diam. to .249....one over again!?????
(I think my math is right?!) Thoughts?
My bolt action sure didn't seem to mind, whatever the tension was!I think the perfect dies aren't built yet, since bushing dies only partial size the necks and the bushings float loosey.
Bert's statement about Forster would seem to indicate that they offer something closer to perfect:
A gentleman posting on THR, who was looking to have them ream one of his Forster sizers was told by someone at Forster:
So using that data:
.308 caliber: Maxing the ream at .333" -(.012"x2 neck thickness) = .309".
Your target would be .306 (.002" under bullet size). So with that neck wall thickness you want to ream only to .330"
With .014" necks however, you might have a problem....as they would have to ream .334". How common is a neck thickness of .014? I wonder if a whole .001 more would really cause an "out-of-round" problem?
.223 caliber: Maxing the ream at .248"-(.0012x2 neck thickness) = .224". Your target (.002" under bullet size) would be .221". So with that neck wall thickness you need to ream only to .245". In this case .014" walls would again increase the needed ream diam. to .249....one over again!?????
(I think my math is right?!) Thoughts?
I have a Forster 223 FL sizer die they reamed out to .245" [my poor choice based on my data from bushings. I complained about go vs no go and Forster has now added 0.0005" increments in their honing service].
A near as I can see, that is too big for any brand of brass.
But as Woody said to Annie about her parking, "That's ok, we can walk to the curb from here."
And so the Lee collet neck die can finish the job.
What does it all mean?
Out of round is irrelevant.
I do not spend every minute of every day looking for fault. I have a few Lee Target type sets. When purchasing reamers for necks from RCBS etc. neck reamers get expensive, the neck reamer die is as expensive. My opinion, there is no straighter way to center the hole in the center with the outside than with the a die that holds the reamer.
The perfect die? My opinion it has been made. A friend of P.O. Ackley made them. He made the reamer, reamed the chamber and made the dies. I was asked to modify one, it had nothing to do with changing the die, it had to do with adding something to it. I have nothing that will hold the close tolerances required so I turned the opportunity down.
F. Guffey
Reviving this looking for a shortcut...
Redding Bushing die in hand, RCBS micrometer seating die. No bushings, yet.
I go to measure the thickness of the case neck, and as I stick the caliper into the case mouth, the light bulb goes off. Crap...the caliper blade's flat...this isn't going to work. Even though .338 is a pretty respectable ID, it's still a flat onto a concave surface.
I suppose I could "bite the bullet" (sorry) and buy a tubing/ball mic- but for as rarely as I'd use it, is there any way to get a bullet into the case neck for a loaded round measurement, without a seating die? Seems seating the bullet haphazardly is only going to distort the case neck and give me useless reference measurements. Looks like I need a ball mic- if those of you that use bushing dies get by without one initially I'd love to hear how.
Then, there's the fact that the shellplate has to be made by the Hornady Custom Shop (at a ridiculous cost) and it's going to be a few more weeks at least until it shows up. Oh well...
And...there is a difference in the bullet diameters. The 285 grain A-MAX's measured .3375, the 300 grain SMK's were .338 on the nose.
Redding Bushing die in hand, RCBS micrometer seating die. No bushings, yet.
I go to measure the thickness of the case neck, and as I stick the caliper into the case mouth, the light bulb goes off. Crap...the caliper blade's flat...this isn't going to work. Even though .338 is a pretty respectable ID, it's still a flat onto a concave surface.
I suppose I could "bite the bullet" (sorry) and buy a tubing/ball mic- but for as rarely as I'd use it, is there any way to get a bullet into the case neck for a loaded round measurement, without a seating die? Seems seating the bullet haphazardly is only going to distort the case neck and give me useless reference measurements. Looks like I need a ball mic- if those of you that use bushing dies get by without one initially I'd love to hear how.
Then, there's the fact that the shellplate has to be made by the Hornady Custom Shop (at a ridiculous cost) and it's going to be a few more weeks at least until it shows up. Oh well...
And...there is a difference in the bullet diameters. The 285 grain A-MAX's measured .3375, the 300 grain SMK's were .338 on the nose.