Who shoots a 6mm at 1K?

T

tobnpr

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At the range last weekend the inconsistent wind had all three in my family splashing dirt all over the gongs at 1000 but hits remained elusive as they do on these types of days.

Another shooter (one of the "regulars") told me I needed to come there an a weekend when they have a competition- dominated, he sez, by the 6mm Dasher.

After looking at the 6BR, BRX, Dasher, etc. I'm not getting "it", I guess...

A 105 grain with a BC of .50 (Amax) at 2900-3000, vs. what I'm using now- a 162 Amax with a BC of .625, at 2800.

Seems to me the much smaller bullets would be subject to more drift. But just like investors like to say "don't fight the Fed", I can't argue with what's winning.

For those of you that own and shoot the 6mm in windy conditions, what's your experience?

Please let's keep it on topic. Only interested in discussing the 6BR and it's wildcats.
 
Check out:

http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

...then go to any page in the site about 6mm's used at long range.

One reason they shoot so well at long range is their mild recoil moves the rifle barrel less during barrel time. But typically only in good wind conditions. When the wind's up and changing quite a bit, the big 30 calibers typically do best.
 
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That's what I thought... I had always been of the opinion that they were primarily shorter range (300-600) yard cartridges, though I think the smallest 1K yard group is from a Dasher (on a good day).
But he swore to me that they win, even on the windier days that are such a b*** down there. I'm going to have to check the calendar and make the drive down there when there's a comp to see for myself.
 
I was out to 1400 yards with the 6MMBR about 2 months ago. 1000 is not hard with that rifle. I after 2 years of Matches have switched to the Serria 107 gn Match bullets. As for under or up to 300 yards the 6PPC is more accurate. After that the 6BR takes over.
 
The Dasher will make a believer out of you. They will move in the wind but everything does. Unless blowing a gale those who can read the wind are hard to beat using the Dasher.
 
I am new to the game and know very little, but I am currently also trying to decide what to build for 1,000 yards. Certainly not a 6mmPPC from what I have been told. As someone pointed out, they dominate the shorter game, 100 & 200 and to some extent 300 yards. I am thinking 6.5 x 47 to get both barrel life and some wind resistance. Berger 130 Gr. 17 pound LBR. The 6mmBR was recommended to me for out to 600 yards, but the Dasher was said to be better at a 1,000. Then I learned about twist rate for different yardages and am not totally, but very confused. Then I talked to too many rifle builders. Fortunately a guy on the AccurateShorter Forum has taken me under his wing and is mentoring me,.

Bob
 
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Bob, if you'll shoot the rifle hand held (prone?) and not resting atop something on a bench, I suggest the 6.5x.284. Since the late 1990's, it's proved the best compromise of all issues (recoil/ease-of-shooting precisely, wind bucking, accuracy) for long range (i.e., 1000 yards) hand-held shooting. It's big drawback is the 700- to 800-round barrel life for best results.
 
Like Bart the 6.5X284 is a good compromise. I'm not a pro-shooter & shot IBS only a couple years. The best group I shot with this cartridge Bart suggests is on the score sheet below I'm Halstead with a 49 score & 1X but in truth most my groups during the season were 6-8 inches.
 
After looking at the 6BR, BRX, Dasher, etc. I'm not getting "it", I guess...

A 105 grain with a BC of .50 (Amax) at 2900-3000, vs. what I'm using now- a 162 Amax with a BC of .625, at 2800.
Click to expand...
Main difference would be recoil. What's stopping a .270 Winchester or .280Rem from shooting these same distances?
150 grain with a BC of .625 capable of being loaded to 2900-3000FPS or a 130 grain with a BC of .497-.540 @ 3000-3200fps, should technically be running circles around the 6mm on paper. The BR/dasher/etc. tend to be low recoil, accurate and efficient in their burning of powder with decent/good barrel life, which is likely why they're popular.
 
IBS has two rifles that you shoot 1000yds one is light under 17lb 5 shot groups other is heavy above 17lb and 10 shoot groups. Smallest groups wins and location of group high ring count wins score. IBS start score count to attract shooters.

IBS light rifle is allowed muzzle brake. I've never shot 6 Dasher but have shot 6BR with 1/8 twist barrel and what I know about 6 Dasher it's better in the wind. About 2010 NBRSA dropped the 1000yd match here and IBS picked them up and mid 2000 most had dropped shooting 6.5x284 Norma in favor of 6BR and the 6 Dasher. Heavy rifle my not see as many 6 Dasher.

F-Class open 6br site most are shooting 284 and 284 Shehane using Berger 180gr VLD bullet.
 
I checked, and was surprised to find that Criterion makes their Savage prefit in 6mm wildcats. Varying opinions, but the XC seems to be better beyond 600, and has a surprisingly good (to me) barrel life of 2500 or more- plus no hassle of making brass.

After checking around a bit more, the 6XC has Norma brass, and the 115 DTAC bullets available from Tubbs at a reasonable price. Heck, $140/500 is less than I'm paying now...Downside is the dies ain't cheap at the cost of the barrel.

I was thinking about a 7 Practical for another chambering, but I really like the ease (and cost) of staying with Savage. Heck, I don't even need another rifle, a 1/2 hour barrel switch to go from 7-08 to 6XC. So many choices...
 
JDOXO asks what's stopping a .270 Winchester or .280Rem from shooting these same distances.

Two reasons well known to accuracy afficanados.

One is the long powder charge shape in cases whose body is too long for its diameter. 270 Win, 280 Rem, and .30-06 Spfld cases have such internal space for powders. When they start burning at their back end, the consistancy from shot to shot is not all that uniform compared to shorter charge spaces at the same diameter. Best accuracy has been relagated to short fat cases. Which is what the ones that produce the smallest test groups have.

The other is the shallow shoulder angle of 17.5 degrees for all three of the above cartridges. That allows more case shoulder setback from firing pin impact on the primer. The above cases easily can have a .006" inch spread depending on firing pin impact force, case hardness and friction between case and chamber shoulders. With more setback than a steeper shoulder angle of 25, 30 or more degrees, there's less shoulder setback. Primer ignition properties are more repeatable. And that means the powder charges get a more consistant start which make for more uniform pressure curves. Repeatablity is the foundation of accuracy; the more there is the more accurate the round will be. One other issue; the more the case shoulder's set back, the more the case body can stretch and if it's not perfectly uniform in thickness and metalurgy, one side will stretch more than the other causing the case head to impact off center on the bolt face which makes the barreled action whip axis change. Bullets won't exit as consistant in their direction relative to the target. Head clearance (distance from bolt face to case head) has to be minimal when the round fires for best accuracy; never zero but about .001" so the bolt will not bind when it closes up in battery at the same place for each shot.

Wind bucking abilities of 24 caliber cartridges has been mentioned. Check out the Comparative Ballistics table in:

http://www.6mmbr.com/6mmbr.html

Look at the 1000-yard wind drift values for a 10 mph cross wind for all cartridges. There's quite a spread; the ones shooting the same bullet out fastest buck the wind the best. Divide those drift numbers by 10 and the answer's what a 1 mph wind will cause. Seeing a 1 mph wind change about a 1 to 2 mph cross wind is very easy to observe watching mirage waves wrinkle across a scope's view. In a 10 to 15 mph cross wind, that same 1 mph change is nye impossible to see. Shooting a .243 ACK means its bullets drift less for a 1 mph change in wind. But it also has the most recoil which makes it more susceptable to erratic movement in recoil whild the bullet goes down the barrel as well as having a larger powder charge which typically are harder to ignite and burn repeatably.

Compromise; it has to be done.
 
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tobnpr....I just built a budget Savage 6XC using one of the Criterion barrels that you mention. My choices were between the 6 Dasher and XC. After a lengthy discussion with Jim at Northland Shooters Supply I chose the stainless 28" bull 8 twist 6XC barrel prefit for a savage action.

Factory brass availability and the ability to form my own brass from 22-250 brass played a large role in my decision. I have not been sorry in the least. The Criterion barrel is hand lapped from the factory and I must say this thing is extremely smooth inside. It cleans up in just 3 patches and there hasn't been even the slightest hint of copper fouling. Accuracy is superb at any distance out to 800 yards.....but I haven't had a chance to try it any farther out.

Dies were not a problem either....I bought these Forster dies....http://www.brownells.com/reloading/...ts-prod59675.aspx?avs|Cartridge_1=ASY_6 mm XC

Now these aren't the top of the line bushing dies but for $100 they do an excellent job. I love the micrometer seating die. It makes like much simpler.

My rifle was built on a strict budget. The action, barrel, stock and all the reloading supplies I needed to make this thing work were purchased for less than what Savage sells their LRPV for.

It may not be pretty but it will wear out a bulls eye......

 
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That seating die's one of the best made.

Have you considered having the sizing die's neck honed out to .002" smaller than your loaded round's neck diameter? Such alterations will be made by Forster for $10. And the die when used without an expander ball will resize fired cases with the straightest case necks on cases possible.
 
Also same die set I got for 6BR. Heed Barts last sentence- I was optamistic about it at first,but tried it last year. I now deprime and then run through sizing die with no decapper rod in it.
 
Around here, the .284 Winchester is dominant. A few shoot the 6x284. You see a xc every now and again.
 
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Damon,
Thanks for the feedback. I was really impressed with the CBI .260 Match barrel (and the action) I got from Jim earlier this year. After the first range session with it doing some load workup the patch didn't even have a hint of blue (copper) after 30 rounds down the brand new tube.

It's not a "stock" item- what was your lead time for the 6XC barrel?

My son just told me I can use his .223 Rem 700 (first rifle, he doesn't shoot it anymore in deference to his more capable long-range rifles) as a donor action (new bolt, natch)...I've been really interested in doing a CBI "Remage" re-barrel.
 
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