Who makes the best dies?
- Thread starter mikenbarb
- Start date
Be aware that asking this question is very much like asking a bunch of guys who makes the best pickup truck.
Some of the best dies you can find are made by Redding, but they do cost more than most others. IMO, nobody comes close to providing the amount of value you get from Lee dies... they work well for most common folks needs and the prices can't be touched by any other maker, not even close.
For building equipment on a tight budget, I think it's foolish to buy any other dies. The one exception I would make is if you can find quality kept USED dies. Kept properly, reloading dies typically won't wear out, so a good price on some old used dies by almost any manufacturer is worth the purchase.
Carbide dies (some call them titanium nitride, but they accomplish the same thing) are meant for straight wall brass, typically handgun calibers. They allow you to full-length resize without using any case lube. The are the STANDARD for all straight wall cases. They were "new" to the scene in the late 70s or early 80s, but they are no longer considered any kind of upgrade-- rather, they are the only common sense way to reload straight wall handgun calibers. (for the record, carbide or titanium nitride only refers to the resizing die which needs it, the other dies are the same as they've always been)
Some of the best dies you can find are made by Redding, but they do cost more than most others. IMO, nobody comes close to providing the amount of value you get from Lee dies... they work well for most common folks needs and the prices can't be touched by any other maker, not even close.
For building equipment on a tight budget, I think it's foolish to buy any other dies. The one exception I would make is if you can find quality kept USED dies. Kept properly, reloading dies typically won't wear out, so a good price on some old used dies by almost any manufacturer is worth the purchase.
Carbide dies (some call them titanium nitride, but they accomplish the same thing) are meant for straight wall brass, typically handgun calibers. They allow you to full-length resize without using any case lube. The are the STANDARD for all straight wall cases. They were "new" to the scene in the late 70s or early 80s, but they are no longer considered any kind of upgrade-- rather, they are the only common sense way to reload straight wall handgun calibers. (for the record, carbide or titanium nitride only refers to the resizing die which needs it, the other dies are the same as they've always been)
I use a mixture of Lee and RCBS. I also have a 22 Hornet neck die made by redding and a 30-30 neck die made by Hornady. RCBS are good as long as you don't use them on military or foreign ammo. I almost....okay, did, destroy an RCBS neck sizing die for my 308 win. I was resizing some Igman (made in Bosnia) brass that has a smaller flash hole than we use. Luckily I managed to repair it. The Lee dies operate on a different system. Instead of threading in like RCBS, Hornady, ect, they have a decapping mandrel held in place by a collet. If too much stress is placed on them, they just slide up through the collet instead of bending and breaking. The disadvantage to the lee is if you have to pull a bullet and want to resize the neck with a live primer its hard to impossible. Another example would be if you neck sized a few too many times and your rounds won't chamber. With everyone elses dies you just remove the decapping pin and resize them.
wncchester
New member
For handguns, it's a tie between Lyman and Redding because of their excellant expander design.
For FL sizing bottle neck cartridges (rifles), it's Forster because of their excellant adjustable height expander button.
For seaters in rifles, it's Forster and Redding. The micrometer heads are nice but the real difference between them and others is the sliding full chamber that supports the entire round before straight-line type seating starts.
For neck sizing and crimping, it's Lee's Collet Sizer and Factory Crimp Dies.
Otherwise, it's all a matter of how much you are willing to spend for better external finishing. All dies are made to SAMMI tolerances and how well any given set of dies matches your weapon's chamber is a crap shoot and every maker allows a few losers to get past inspection but they will stand behind them if we don't bugger them up first.
Only RCBS and Dillon repace parts we have damaged ourselves but their initial cost includes the price of those "free" parts even if you don't need them!
For FL sizing bottle neck cartridges (rifles), it's Forster because of their excellant adjustable height expander button.
For seaters in rifles, it's Forster and Redding. The micrometer heads are nice but the real difference between them and others is the sliding full chamber that supports the entire round before straight-line type seating starts.
For neck sizing and crimping, it's Lee's Collet Sizer and Factory Crimp Dies.
Otherwise, it's all a matter of how much you are willing to spend for better external finishing. All dies are made to SAMMI tolerances and how well any given set of dies matches your weapon's chamber is a crap shoot and every maker allows a few losers to get past inspection but they will stand behind them if we don't bugger them up first.
Only RCBS and Dillon repace parts we have damaged ourselves but their initial cost includes the price of those "free" parts even if you don't need them!
Resizing
Red Eagle, I use Lee five stage reloader I got cheap from someone who bought it new and couldn't adjust it correctly, I am using a .45 (I load .40) sizing die in the first station with the .40 decapper then in the second stage I resize the brass (same stage that you instal the primer) that way if I have a primed brass I can resize and continue on.....if I have several I just pull the decapping pin (loosen the collet and just remove it, does not change any adjustments). I also reload 9mm for that I just bought a used universal decapper and that is in the first stage then the sizing die is in the second (priming) stage. Off course you could just loosen the collet and remove the decapping pin.
Red Eagle, I use Lee five stage reloader I got cheap from someone who bought it new and couldn't adjust it correctly, I am using a .45 (I load .40) sizing die in the first station with the .40 decapper then in the second stage I resize the brass (same stage that you instal the primer) that way if I have a primed brass I can resize and continue on.....if I have several I just pull the decapping pin (loosen the collet and just remove it, does not change any adjustments). I also reload 9mm for that I just bought a used universal decapper and that is in the first stage then the sizing die is in the second (priming) stage. Off course you could just loosen the collet and remove the decapping pin.
BigJakeJ1s
New member
My preferences:
Pistol sizing: anyone's carbide or TiN (hornady) dies
Pistol expanding dies: Lyman M type
Pistol seating dies: Hornady or Redding Competition
Pistol roll crimp: Hornady seating die (while seating)
Pistol taper crimp: no experience
Bottleneck pistol crimp: Lee FCD
Pistol die set: Hornady
Rifle FL sizing: Forster
Rifle neck sizing: Lee Collet
Rifle seating: Forster or Redding Competition or RCBS Competition
Rifle Crimp: Lee FCD
Rifle Die set: Forster
Andy
Pistol sizing: anyone's carbide or TiN (hornady) dies
Pistol expanding dies: Lyman M type
Pistol seating dies: Hornady or Redding Competition
Pistol roll crimp: Hornady seating die (while seating)
Pistol taper crimp: no experience
Bottleneck pistol crimp: Lee FCD
Pistol die set: Hornady
Rifle FL sizing: Forster
Rifle neck sizing: Lee Collet
Rifle seating: Forster or Redding Competition or RCBS Competition
Rifle Crimp: Lee FCD
Rifle Die set: Forster
Andy
Sidetracked
New member
My preference: (No competition applications)
All-around 2 or 3 die sets (Full Length size) - RCBS/Redding
Neck Size - haven't decided, but default is RCBS with Redding second
Decapping - RCBS/Redding
Seating - Hornady (But, I use RCBS for 95%)
Bullet pulling - Hornady Cam-Loc
Carbide Pistol - RCBS
Part of my RCBS bias is due to the fact that I like to keep mostly to the same brand, for parts interchangeability and familiarity. However, it is mostly due to quality vs price. I love Redding dies, but the extra cost usually has a big red arrow pointing back to RCBS.
Due to past experience, I won't touch anything from Lee except the Factory Crimp die, or Auto Prime.
Hornady dies really don't have anything wrong with them, but I prefer the RCBS style threaded decapping/expanding rod.
Whatever you choose, remember: You get what you pay for.
Red_Eagle- If you can get ahold of the small diameter replacement decapping pins; they work well for cases with smaller flash holes. Just make sure you get the right kind for your die. (New style with a head, or old style with no head) I always keep a few spares of every type on hand for when a guest screws up, and bends a pin.
All-around 2 or 3 die sets (Full Length size) - RCBS/Redding
Neck Size - haven't decided, but default is RCBS with Redding second
Decapping - RCBS/Redding
Seating - Hornady (But, I use RCBS for 95%)
Bullet pulling - Hornady Cam-Loc
Carbide Pistol - RCBS
Part of my RCBS bias is due to the fact that I like to keep mostly to the same brand, for parts interchangeability and familiarity. However, it is mostly due to quality vs price. I love Redding dies, but the extra cost usually has a big red arrow pointing back to RCBS.
Due to past experience, I won't touch anything from Lee except the Factory Crimp die, or Auto Prime.
Hornady dies really don't have anything wrong with them, but I prefer the RCBS style threaded decapping/expanding rod.
Whatever you choose, remember: You get what you pay for.
Red_Eagle- If you can get ahold of the small diameter replacement decapping pins; they work well for cases with smaller flash holes. Just make sure you get the right kind for your die. (New style with a head, or old style with no head) I always keep a few spares of every type on hand for when a guest screws up, and bends a pin.
TexasSeaRay
New member
I like Lee and RCBS based upon years of experience and tens of thousands of rounds shot in competition, hunting, military, law enforcement and just plain old paper and steel killing.
Back in my law enforcement days, I conducted an experiment with our armorer at Quantico. I bought a set of Lee .308 dies, RCBS .308 dies and Redding Competition dies. There was better than a $125 spread in price between the least expensive and the most expensive.
My armor and I proceeded to load up identical series of sniper-grade ammo on a Rockchucker, and fired from one of his tricked out Winchester Model 70 pieces that was other-worldly accurate. We did our firing test at a certain underground 100 yard range in southeastern Virginia.
The difference between the five-shot groupss from rounds produced by the different dies was less than 1/8 of an inch.
In all my years of reloading and shooting, I've only sent two sets of dies back to the manufacture for "warranty" work.
One was a set of Lee carbide .38 Special dies that I had boogered up the threads on. Completely, totaly 100% all my fault and I said exactly that in my letter to them. All I was wanting was for them to re-run the dies through a lathe to clean up the threads. They were my first set of Lee dies that I loaded truckoads of .38 Special with during my LE and IPSC competition days. Kind of a sentimental thing with me. The dies were over 20 years old--well beyond Lee's two-year warranty.
Lee sent me back both the original dies and a brand new set of dies with a nice note of appreciation for my loyalty. No charge.
The other set of dies were my RCBS .223 dies that I bought in the late 70's when I was in the military. A .223 case had become irreparably stuck. RCBS sent me a brand new sizing/decapping die. No charge.
I have obtained outstanding accuracy and reliability from both brands in all calibers I load and shoot. When I needed the warranty because of my own cranial rectitus, both brands delivered in spades.
Based upon firsthand knowledge and experience, I see no reason to ever change my preferences.
Jeff
Back in my law enforcement days, I conducted an experiment with our armorer at Quantico. I bought a set of Lee .308 dies, RCBS .308 dies and Redding Competition dies. There was better than a $125 spread in price between the least expensive and the most expensive.
My armor and I proceeded to load up identical series of sniper-grade ammo on a Rockchucker, and fired from one of his tricked out Winchester Model 70 pieces that was other-worldly accurate. We did our firing test at a certain underground 100 yard range in southeastern Virginia.
The difference between the five-shot groupss from rounds produced by the different dies was less than 1/8 of an inch.
In all my years of reloading and shooting, I've only sent two sets of dies back to the manufacture for "warranty" work.
One was a set of Lee carbide .38 Special dies that I had boogered up the threads on. Completely, totaly 100% all my fault and I said exactly that in my letter to them. All I was wanting was for them to re-run the dies through a lathe to clean up the threads. They were my first set of Lee dies that I loaded truckoads of .38 Special with during my LE and IPSC competition days. Kind of a sentimental thing with me. The dies were over 20 years old--well beyond Lee's two-year warranty.
Lee sent me back both the original dies and a brand new set of dies with a nice note of appreciation for my loyalty. No charge.
The other set of dies were my RCBS .223 dies that I bought in the late 70's when I was in the military. A .223 case had become irreparably stuck. RCBS sent me a brand new sizing/decapping die. No charge.
I have obtained outstanding accuracy and reliability from both brands in all calibers I load and shoot. When I needed the warranty because of my own cranial rectitus, both brands delivered in spades.
Based upon firsthand knowledge and experience, I see no reason to ever change my preferences.
Jeff
The Lovemaster
New member
The best value for the money in dies is Lee. Personally I have recently bought a couple sets. My other dies are RCBS. I have experienced no quality issues with either. It basically comes down to how much you want to spend. I like Lee lately for the ease of adjustment when loading. I prefer hand adjustments rather than whipping out the tools.
I have used them all. I have no complaints about any of the. For me as my tastes have evolved I like Redding Type S Dies for precision rifle ammo. I have Forster Ultra seater dies that work well. I have a Redding Pro Series 45ACP die set for the Dillon, and they are slickest sizing dies I have used. I have Dillon Carbide in 9mm, and they work well.
I have RCBS dies for other stuff with no complaints! I used to use Lee Dies for loading the 30-06 for a M1 Garand, and I had excellent results!
Never used any Hornady pistol dies, but loaded plenty of 308 with Hornady dies!
I have RCBS dies for other stuff with no complaints! I used to use Lee Dies for loading the 30-06 for a M1 Garand, and I had excellent results!
Never used any Hornady pistol dies, but loaded plenty of 308 with Hornady dies!
wncchester
New member
"Whatever you choose, remember: You get what you pay for."
I agree. If you want to pay for a polished exterior, that's what you will get! But, as Texas Ray put it, there is no real difference in the quality of ammo any brand, as such, will produce. I've done a series of tests that proved the same thing.
I once tested a bunch of .243 dies from five makers with as many as three sets of some brands. I checked the average concentricity of ten rounds loaded with each set. Used selected cases for each test so things would be as near the same as possible. Found that the differences between dies of the same brand are as pronounced as any differences between brands.
There are some design features individuals prefer, some like RCBS/Lyman threaded expanders, some like Lee/Hornady, but the ammo from them will be little different. Ditto for Hornady's current short sliding bullet sleeves, it makes it easy to seat some bullets but I've found no difference in the concentricity of the ammo from them and anything else.
And I think all makers are quite good at standing behind defective products. Some brands may balk at "free" corrections of obvious abuse but I don't do that and am uncomfortable at having to pay for those who do.
So, if you want shiney dies, be comfortable paying for them. Otherwise..., you will be paying for more than you get.
I agree. If you want to pay for a polished exterior, that's what you will get! But, as Texas Ray put it, there is no real difference in the quality of ammo any brand, as such, will produce. I've done a series of tests that proved the same thing.
I once tested a bunch of .243 dies from five makers with as many as three sets of some brands. I checked the average concentricity of ten rounds loaded with each set. Used selected cases for each test so things would be as near the same as possible. Found that the differences between dies of the same brand are as pronounced as any differences between brands.
There are some design features individuals prefer, some like RCBS/Lyman threaded expanders, some like Lee/Hornady, but the ammo from them will be little different. Ditto for Hornady's current short sliding bullet sleeves, it makes it easy to seat some bullets but I've found no difference in the concentricity of the ammo from them and anything else.
And I think all makers are quite good at standing behind defective products. Some brands may balk at "free" corrections of obvious abuse but I don't do that and am uncomfortable at having to pay for those who do.
So, if you want shiney dies, be comfortable paying for them. Otherwise..., you will be paying for more than you get.
The following is my opinion and my opinion only.
1. Wilson dies. I can't believe they haven't been mentioned. Best dies on the market. Use them on my 6ppc. If you haven't used them, you owe it to yourself to do so.
2. Redding "S" bushing type dies are a close second. I also use Redding "bump" or body dies to set back the shoulder when I start getting hard bolt lifts.
3. Everybody else.
Since I do alot of custom reloading, I use RCBS for economical reasons. I can't afford Wilsons or Reddings for every caliber I load for, most of which I don't even own. With that said, I've turned out some mighty accurate rounds with cheap RCBS dies. Just finished 100 25-06 rounds yesterday for an old Sako L61R action. Gun shoots incredibly with RE22. Smallest group with this powder was .247". I just wish RCBS would come up with a different setup concerning there expander ball. It can cause other problems such as case neck runout which equals bullet runout. This is not a concern with Redding bushing type dies or Wilson dies.
1. Wilson dies. I can't believe they haven't been mentioned. Best dies on the market. Use them on my 6ppc. If you haven't used them, you owe it to yourself to do so.
2. Redding "S" bushing type dies are a close second. I also use Redding "bump" or body dies to set back the shoulder when I start getting hard bolt lifts.
3. Everybody else.
Since I do alot of custom reloading, I use RCBS for economical reasons. I can't afford Wilsons or Reddings for every caliber I load for, most of which I don't even own. With that said, I've turned out some mighty accurate rounds with cheap RCBS dies. Just finished 100 25-06 rounds yesterday for an old Sako L61R action. Gun shoots incredibly with RE22. Smallest group with this powder was .247". I just wish RCBS would come up with a different setup concerning there expander ball. It can cause other problems such as case neck runout which equals bullet runout. This is not a concern with Redding bushing type dies or Wilson dies.
CPTMurdoc30
New member
I like RCBS good dies I also like Hornady Dies as well.
Who makes the best is tough to say. Redding, Forester, and RCBS all make very accurate competition dies. Some benchrest shooters don't use any of the above dies. They have dies that are custom cut by the gunsmith that chambered their barrel using the same chamber reamers.
Redding and RCBS comp dies cost the most but that does not mean they are the best. For all around loading duties for bottle neck cartridges I like Hornady dies the best.
For pistol I have RCBS but I am soon going to switch to Dillon dies for my 550 B.
Who makes the best is tough to say. Redding, Forester, and RCBS all make very accurate competition dies. Some benchrest shooters don't use any of the above dies. They have dies that are custom cut by the gunsmith that chambered their barrel using the same chamber reamers.
Redding and RCBS comp dies cost the most but that does not mean they are the best. For all around loading duties for bottle neck cartridges I like Hornady dies the best.
For pistol I have RCBS but I am soon going to switch to Dillon dies for my 550 B.
I like Forster, but I can get just as good results from Redding, Wilson, RCBS, and sometimes Lee.
I have proven to myself, that cheap and common RCBS dies, with the expander ball removed, can be used to load ammo that will shoot as good as any.
The reason that I pay extra for Forster is because I can afford the luxury.
And Forster will hone out their dies for $10, saving me hours to hone out an RCBS.
I have proven to myself, that cheap and common RCBS dies, with the expander ball removed, can be used to load ammo that will shoot as good as any.
The reason that I pay extra for Forster is because I can afford the luxury.
And Forster will hone out their dies for $10, saving me hours to hone out an RCBS.
BerettaFox
New member
I won't argue who the best die maker is, but I can tell you that my Lee Carbide dies work fine for 9mm. I never have to lube them and haven't had one stick in there yet. Carbide dies are easier to work with.
What a "loaded" question (couldn't resist)... I've used Lee, they were adequate for the job when I started out... the finish inside the die and on the expander left a bit to be desired (a little rough)... now that I'm doing it again, I decided to spend a bit more...
I like Hornady Dies (have them in Pistol Calibers).... I also like RCBS dies (I have one set in Rifle, with the X-Dies coming for my .300WBY) ... I've heard good things about the Redding and Forster dies as well.
The only thing I don't like about RCBS dies is the way they set up the locking ring system, with that set screw that digs into the threads (yeah, I know about the lead shot trick)... but I can put Hornady locking rings on them!
I like Hornady Dies (have them in Pistol Calibers).... I also like RCBS dies (I have one set in Rifle, with the X-Dies coming for my .300WBY) ... I've heard good things about the Redding and Forster dies as well.
The only thing I don't like about RCBS dies is the way they set up the locking ring system, with that set screw that digs into the threads (yeah, I know about the lead shot trick)... but I can put Hornady locking rings on them!
crowbeaner
New member
The best dies come in GREEN BOXES! Either shade!