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Who is important?
- Thread starter Gus-gus
- Start date
your going to pull out your pistol and take on 30 combatants???
Nope I'm gonna keep going.
I bet though if you do stop and pull out your pistol the 28 combatants would run like jack rabbits after your drill the first two.
serf 'rett
New member
I just don't know if my fears and caution was the right things to do.
You did the right thing, IMHO. Your fears and caution had a solid foundation in common sense.
Few years ago, I'm driving home from church, with wife and kids, when about 4 miles from the City we come upon two cars pulled over on the shoulder. As we approach, a few folks exit the vehicles; whereupon, a woman attacks a man and the pair are running around out in the middle of the state highway. I felt no compulsion to intervene, but did call in a report - once we were safely clear of the area. The incident had already been reported even though I could still see the cars in my rear view mirror.
Presence of family made this choice a no brainer in my situation; just as your good common sense led you to make the correct choice.
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your going to pull out your pistol and take on 30 combatants???
Nope I'm gonna keep going.
I bet though if you do stop and pull out your pistol the 28 combatants would run like jack rabbits after your drill the first two
dont bet your life on it
TylerD45ACP
New member
What I am going to to is get myself + any loved ones around out of the situation. If deadly force is necessary I will use it while on the move to get OUT of the area of danger. The best move is to boot it out of there and call 911 from a nearby area but far enough you feel away from danger. Thats my take on the situation imho.
dont bet your life on it
If the option is do nothing and get beaten or killed vs open fire and I may or may not survive depending on if the gang runs after a few are shot, I'm going to fight. Is that gambling my life or fighting for it?
To date I have yet to see a single event that had a group advance more than a couple of steps while being shot at. The few that did advance did so because they believed they would get the weapon away before being shot. They basically thought they had a chance because they were so close.
This idea that a group/gang of thugs will automatically launch a coordinated attack if we engage them is baseless. If you don't allow yourself to be surrounded and you keep enough distance to allow you to engage those closest to you, they will likely flee when the gunfire starts.
I anyone has evidence of a group of civilian thugs continuing an attack while being shot at please post a link.
No we can't get them all before they get us if they do attack but we can make the first ones pay a heavy price. A price the others have proven in the past not to be willing to pay. Some are worried about capacity. IMO why? Nobody wants to die not the first 5 for you wheel gunners or the first 15 for us semi guys.
If I understand you correctly, threegun, your point is that we would not be dealing with a disciplined unified fighting force, and it is well taken. Mob mentality should probably be be considered to be unpredictable, but if the situation is grave enough you have at least some chance of fighting out of it by your methods. I personally would have to be out of options to try that, but "out of options" is pretty much why we carry, right?
I personally would have to be out of options to try that, but "out of options" is pretty much why we carry, right?
For me it would be being out of safer options. I personally don't want to wait to use deadly force IF waiting lessens my chances of surviving. Once justified, I want to use my force when it maximizes my chances to survive. I could be justified yet a safer bet would be to comply. I could be justified, have another option, but feel it less safe to attempt the other option especially if a failure in that other option reduces my chances of surviving when I do begin to use deadly force. I hope to let the scenario dictate my actions based on all the information available. If it is to fight, I hope to fight hard.
If I understand you correctly, threegun, your point is that we would not be dealing with a disciplined unified fighting force,
Right. BTW I wouldn't want to chance an undisciplined ununified gang/mob that has time to prepare a response. The Human Being is the most dangerous animal on Earth because of our ability to think and problem solve.
I would need the elements of surprise and tremendous violence to cause a retreat IMO.
TylerD45ACP
New member
Alot of BG's will just take off as soon as return fire comes their way, imo. I have nothing to back up that statement but it seems to be what they do. Shooting could actually get the enemy to evade.
Highway 99 and 200th street "in" Tacoma? I don't remember 99 continuing into Tacoma.
I wondered about that too. 99 turns to a different highway before it even gets to SeaTac, iirc.
That said, there are very very few times I would consider risking my life to stop a large violent group. I'm thinking of that young teen girl being gang-raped when I write that. But adult males fighting? It would take very unusual circumstances to convince me to intervene.
I do think calling 911 would have been the morally correct thing to do. Regardless of any prior bad experiences with police. We must resist evil in the best way we can.
TylerD45ACP
New member
A young teen girl being assaulted would force me into an automatic draw and I would issue stern commands. If they did not comply and get away from her I would do what I had to do. Getting the police involved in these situatons is always a good idea.
I hope to let the scenario dictate my actions based on all the information available.
In other words, think hard and think fast using all available information. And yes, I agree. Knee-jerk reactions just get your kicked in the shins, at best.
I'm thinking of that young teen girl being gang-raped
And even that appearance can be mistaken. There was an incident locally in which a 13-year old girl (IIRC) took turns with several boys on a public but sparsely populated beach. Messed up situation, but not an occasion to open fire. My point is only that it is sometimes hard to discern what is going on when you happen upon a situation.
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Single Six
New member
I think that you did the right thing. There was no compelling moral, legal, or ethical reason for you to intervene, particularly with so many people involved. Not to mention the tactical reasons you shouldn't have even thought about doing it. As a full-time LEO, however, I will say this: You're certainly entitled to blindly hate me and my co-workers, even though you've never met me. I'll also readily admit that there have been people who have worn the badge that didn't deserve it and made us all look bad; I challenge you to show me a profession that does not have such people included. As far as LEOs being "an hour away" when you call, that is not always the case. It's also why we have pepper spray, tazers, and a Second Amendment. Besides, if there were enough LEOs to be everywhere at once, what you'd have is a police state, which nobody wants. So: Hate us if you wish. I only ask that, instead of painting us all with the same brush, you judge us as INDIVIDUALS...rather than as a group.
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Vito
It was important that he pointed out that they were black because it means they were more than likely in a gang. Sense you know whites and latinos dont have gangs.(sarcasm)
kkk
arayan brother hood
hells angels
Neo-Nazis
SV-13
mexican mafia
Latin kings
etc..... Seen plenty of migrant workers and "good ol boys" that looked like a group of individuals engaging in illegal activity.What do you call them GANGS!
Seriously though getting the hell out of dodge is the best option if its an option. NOT saying you did behave differently on purpose but would you have even come close to this situation if you were not armed? Why are they all up at 5am?
It was important that he pointed out that they were black because it means they were more than likely in a gang. Sense you know whites and latinos dont have gangs.(sarcasm)
kkk
arayan brother hood
hells angels
Neo-Nazis
SV-13
mexican mafia
Latin kings
etc..... Seen plenty of migrant workers and "good ol boys" that looked like a group of individuals engaging in illegal activity.What do you call them GANGS!
Seriously though getting the hell out of dodge is the best option if its an option. NOT saying you did behave differently on purpose but would you have even come close to this situation if you were not armed? Why are they all up at 5am?
Here is what I would have done
A few options (said in jest please don't freak)
A. Ever seen a pickup fly? I think I would have pounded the gas so hard that I jumped the whole scene.
B. I would have waited till there was a line of em and shot once hoping for a pass through
C. Switch to hand grenades? I guess I'm going to have to start towing my trailer to bring along all the tactical stuff I will need in a given day.
D. Not said in jest.......I WOULD DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID EXCEPT I WOULD CALL THE POLICE. I don't understand your aversion to LEO's then again I did not have the experience you did in Alaska. Frankly that situation sounds more suited for a QRT or Swat.
The LEO's of the world are there for a reason and guys like the ones who posted previously here are to be respected and commended.
Kind Regards, Vermonter
A few options (said in jest please don't freak)
A. Ever seen a pickup fly? I think I would have pounded the gas so hard that I jumped the whole scene.
B. I would have waited till there was a line of em and shot once hoping for a pass through
C. Switch to hand grenades? I guess I'm going to have to start towing my trailer to bring along all the tactical stuff I will need in a given day.
D. Not said in jest.......I WOULD DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID EXCEPT I WOULD CALL THE POLICE. I don't understand your aversion to LEO's then again I did not have the experience you did in Alaska. Frankly that situation sounds more suited for a QRT or Swat.
The LEO's of the world are there for a reason and guys like the ones who posted previously here are to be respected and commended.
Kind Regards, Vermonter
m&p45acp10+1
New member
Rule numero uno
Your personal safty comes first.
It is imposible to do anyone any good if you become another victim. All you have done is create another victim.
I as a firefigher have actualy had situations where we arrived before law enforcement, and waited a safe distance away until they cleared the scene. If I had rode though a situatoin like the OP described I would have driven a safe distance away, and called 911. I can assure you the dispatcher you talk to will advise you not to return to the scene.
Your personal safty comes first.
It is imposible to do anyone any good if you become another victim. All you have done is create another victim.
I as a firefigher have actualy had situations where we arrived before law enforcement, and waited a safe distance away until they cleared the scene. If I had rode though a situatoin like the OP described I would have driven a safe distance away, and called 911. I can assure you the dispatcher you talk to will advise you not to return to the scene.