Who here wouldn't have shot this sunufabitch?! pt2

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George Dickel , I suppose that it is I tho whom you point that "...gutless, liberal drivel of how the mother shares in the guilt for this tragic incident." Well for starters, I am about as far from a Liberal as there can be and still remain within the law. Second, I think that the primary responsiblity lies with the POS that jacked the car. Third, if the mother had invested in a $3.00 spare key, she could have locked the f***ing door to protect that poor inocent child from such an ugly death.

You and Alan B are very pumped on your own anger and disgust, (You are reacting emotionally to this rather than rationally - sort of like the anti-gun crowd goes off after a shooting) but at the end of the day, she (the mother) should not have left her precious child alone in an unlocked, running car. That she will suffer from her own conscience does not mitigate her responsiblity to protect to the best of her ability her children. If this is the best she can muster, she deserves a paragraph in the Darwin Awards.

Like I said, the POS deserves to die for his crime. He probably won't though and that is f***ing awful all by itself.

Go ahead and flame me some more if it makes you feel better, but one day when reason returns you will see that I am correct in assigning a small amount of blame to the boy's mother.

[This message has been edited by Libertarian (edited February 24, 2000).]
 
They should have dragged him to a curb, told him to open his mouth and put it on the curb, then told him good-night as they apply their foot to the back of his head
 
Kathryn, that is EXACTLY what I will do if it ever happens again. I am still mad that I didn't call 911. I spoke to the cops later and they told me they would have jailed her on the spot and taken charge of the baby.

It's hard to think of what to do when some woman brings in a baby that looks very close to death. All we could think of was water and getting it to look normal again.

I have never seen a kid look worse. However, next time (same old story) there is gonna be hell to pay.
 
Tomberg:

How many guys that look like the perp did you see in S.Dakota, or Iowa, or Maine, or Montana, or Utah, or Wyoming???
 
Libertarian:

If someone burglarizes my home, is it partially my fault since I had no landmines deployed?

If I'm shot, is it partially my fault for not wearing a vest?

This has been explained once before in this thread. Left without malicious interference, the child would live today.
He was killed by a carjacker. A murderer. No-one else is to "blame".

Did the mother make a mistake? In HINDSIGHT, yes. And hopefully someone will learn from this tragedy. But she isn't to "blame".


[This message has been edited by Dave AA (edited February 24, 2000).]
 
Geez. Those pantywaist moderators over on Glock Talk threatened to toss me from the board for suggesting that I might have shot the thug. I might have to reconsider who I hang out with.
 
I believe in due process. I truly do. The law has to work for everyone, or just maybe it will work for noone. But, y'know, every once in a while, something like this comes along and.....

It's true. The world would be much better off without trash like this in it. The sooner this guy checks out, the better. I couldn't care less how it happens, but he needs to exit terra firma ASAP. A child. Absolutely sickening.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WalterGAII:
Tomberg:

How many guys that look like the perp did you see in S.Dakota, or Iowa, or Maine, or Montana, or Utah, or Wyoming??? [/quote]

Uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhh........hold on .....I'm thinking .......NONE !!!Kinda tells you sumtin'.



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TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER
 
Where did this come from? I hate posts that don't show until after a second post is submitted. I guess I need to be more patient when the Inet runs slowly. :eek:

[This message has been edited by Libertarian (edited February 25, 2000).]
 
Dave AA, if you leave your doors open, it is partiall your fault. The law (and insurance companies) require that we all take reasonable precautions to protect that which we hold valuble. That woman did not take reasonable precautions.

If you walk away and leave your wallet at McDonald's, is it not at all your fault if it is stolen? Sure it is the major responsibility of the criminal for doing the crime instead of turning it in to the staff, but it is still your responsibility to protect your stuff.

There was a topic else where on this board about bathroom and problems with carrying pistols. As I remember, no one had any problem blaming the people who allowed their weapons to be lost. Is losing your weapon more of a personal responsibility issue than losing your kid?
 
Alan B,
Bad things happen to good people. Trite saying, but true nontheless. My own neighborhood is very much like the one you describe. I try to impress on my wife the need to take extra precaution because of that. It's easy to be *aware* of your surroundings in a high crime area, and as such, it would make the *job* of predator that much harder. My condolences to you as a friend of the family.

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited February 25, 2000).]
 
This situation is totally different from the type of reckless endangerment typified by leaving a child for hours in a hot locked car.

The mother was living in condition white. Now she'll live in condition hell for the rest of her life. She has my prayers.
 
It is now Friday morning and the media, national and local, refuse to address this tragedy. There was a small microscopic article in our local paper, with no details on the POS.
A few months ago, those slugs that got expelled from a Decatur, Ill. high school were the #1 story for days-TV,radio, talk shows. Now, we have this horror and the PC bastards sweep it under the carpet. What have we come to??

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"middle of the road"-where a yellow streak and dead carcasses are found.
 
Sorry for causing so much trouble with my post guys ! :o
I allways think "left of center" on most things & I was just trying to point out that we as Human Beings make some of the dumbest mistakes, considering how we're supposed to be up there on the top of the evolutionary ladder....
I'm not attributing "blame" on the Mother but merely pointing out that anyone with children needs to be a darn sight more vigilant as they go through their daily routines.
Hope this has come through in print as well as I meant it to.
As far as the carjacker is concerned I truly hope he gets the chair/lethal injection or slow death by other inmates for what he did was truly unforgiveable.... :(
One last thing & don't take this the wrong way either but what happened to the talk about "taking responsibility for ones actions" ?
Isn't this what everyone keeps bringing up regarding frivilous Lawsuits against, say Mc Donalds where the silly woman ordered HOT coffee, then when she spilt it on herself SUED Mc Donalds for serving HOT COFFEE !
(and WON !)
Again just me thinking left of center.....
 
Guys-- the boy was old enough to let himself out of the car. Thus the issue of safety was not an issue, there. She did have time to get out and open the door and get to her boy-- she could see him. This one is not one of those dispicable, horrible cases of neglect like Lavan mentions (and SHAME on you if you didn't report the mother to Child Protective Services on the spot!).

*******************
This is all about the car Thief/Kidnapper/MURDERER. HE committed that heinous crime, and could have stopped it at any time. Steal a car. Oops! Kid's in the car, better jump out and leave the scene! Drive off with kid. Oops! Kid's hanging out; better jump out of the car and leave the scene. Kid's bouncing on pavement...

This man is a murderer. Not heat of the moment. Not accidental. He could have stopped at any point. His judgement must be for the maximum allowable punishment.

2nd Degree murder? How?

Was it an ACCIDENT that he stole the car?
Was it an ACCIDENT that he kept driving?


I'm so SORRY, and yet so GLAD... that I wasn't there.

I'm sorry to all of y'all whose threads I had to skip; I'm just too upset to read them all.

That beautiful child is dead now. And all I can do is sit here and cry for him.
 
My family has sufferd tragedy in the past but I just don't want to think about having to deal with something like this.
I restate my view on capitol punishment: The use of capitol punishment is because there are some crimes that we can not properly punish so we must send the perpetrator to the only power that can. I hope nobody takes "the law" in there own hands no matter how much richly deserved, no one else need go to jail for this man.


[This message has been edited by Nestor Rivera (edited February 25, 2000).]
 
HS:

He probally will get lethal injection, from his cell mate..

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Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 
Let's stay calm. We can not change an outrageous incident that already is
history. For the record, I am as angry, frustrated, horrified, sad, and upset
as many of you. Let me try to hash this out (as much for myself as ...).
---------------

The thief:

- Once the thief was under control, causing or attempting to cause him
injury, serious bodily injury, or death would be a criminal offense.

- Though you (or I) might find that justified, emotionally necessary or
rewarding, remember the cost to yourself and your loved ones in terms of
money, time, notoriety, criminal and civil proceedings and probable jail or
prison time. I understand it’s your choice but you might have many years
in prison to contemplate whether your outrage was worth leaving your
family financially destitute, without a home, alone, and undefended while
you spend decades in a cell as Bruno’s significant other. (NO humor
intended.)
---------------

The Mother:

- The concept of prosecuting the Mother nearly makes me vomit.
Prosecuting her would be cold beyond my comprehension. Though I
understand the argument that "The law's the law," we could have a little
understanding here.

- On the other hand, IF (<---- ) the Mother’s conduct constituted
negligence which WOULD have been punished had the child been UNinjured,
isn’t it a bit backwards to say “punish the offender only if NO harm results”?
---------------

Personal responsibility and emotional posturing:

- I’m glad I did not witness the incident. Anything I would try to do to stop
the incident could have made the child’s death MY fault in the eyes of the
law or (even worse) in my own opinion.

- I’m glad I did not capture the thief. I would hope I could maintain lawful
behavior as befitting someone licensed to carry a firearm. But the Irish
redneck in me would have been stressed.

- My personal opinion is, if I could not maintain legal behavior for myself,
then I am no better than the thief.
---------------

Recurrence:

- Let’s try to prevent another such incident:
-- Guard unguarded children (from a distance so no threat is perceived),
-- Educate our families and as many other people as possible of the
legalities and dangers involved with leaving those persons unprotected who
can not protect themselves.

- In Texas, we can refer to Texas Penal Code Section 22.

From PC 22.10:
a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a
child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child
is:
a1) younger than seven years of age; and
a2) not attended by an individual in the vehicle who is 14 years of age or
older.

Possibly coming into play (re-worded excerpts):

PC 22.04. Injury to a child, elderly individual, or disabled individual
- includes intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, (by act or omission) or with
criminal negligence, causing bodily injury, etc.
(BTW child=14 y/o or younger; elderly=65 y/o or older.... I need to watch
when and where I leave my 87 y/o Mom in the car!)

PC 22.041. Abandoning or endangering child.
- Leaving a child in any place without providing reasonable and necessary
care for the child (too long to quote),
- Leaving a child in any place under circumstances that expose the child to
an unreasonable risk of harm.

PC 22.05. Deadly conduct appears to include:
- Conduct that places another in imminent danger of serious bodily injury,
- Knowingly pointing a firearm at or in the direction of another whether or
not the actor believed the firearm to be loaded (off the subject - but
"interesting")

Even within Texas, local ordinances may apply....

Remember, I’m neither an attorney nor a peace officer so I’m neither
qualified nor attempting to provide advice or interpretation of the law.
Check with your attorney, folks.
---------------

Shun Condition White. Live in Condition Yellow. Unpleasant but good
advice.

(I’m sure the “locals” will say I’m becoming even MORE paranoid - as if I
cared.....)
 
Well ( :o ), I've done it again. At 96K + the picture (which I could not get to load) this thread is a slow-loader around 100K.

Next one to post, please start Part 3.

This thread is closed due to length.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited February 25, 2000).]
 
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