Who here has ever had an "accidental" firearms discharge?

[TunnelRat]

Voluntary unintentional

This seems like a contradiction to me.

Involuntary unintentional

This seems redundant to me.

Negligent discharge is also not correct, despite how much you want to jump on board with anti gunners and use their terminology.

As much as I don't want to "jump on board" with anti-gunners (not sure how acknowledging that some people can be negligent qualifies as this but okay), I'm also not willing to go to the point of using terminology that makes little to no sense to me. I use the term negligent because in many cases the cause was user negligence.

 

[AlongCameJones]

Human brain error was the root cause in my OP scenario.

The gun functioned correctly when it went BANG! as it was designed to do when the trigger was pressed and loads were chambered. However, the gun was made to discharge a bullet under an undesirable set of circumstances without conscious human intent to fire. Dry fire training is also counterintuitive because the human mind is much more accustomed to expecting a gun to go off when intentionally pointed at an object and the trigger pressed. In army basic, we practiced dry fire only a few times with washers and dimes. Most depressing of the trigger involved live rounds going off at the range, hopefully to hit intended targets and score the firer an Expert badge. Drill sergeants didn't dare sport their Smokey Bear hats on the range as they might otherwise become highly-visible intended targets too. Young soldiers used to horseplay with their weapons too off the range by pointing them at others and pressing the trigger. I was guilty of that crap too but long grew out of it. In the army you are under such tight control and supervision when you are issued a weapon. The sergeants guard you like a baby whenever you are issued live rounds. As a civilian with a gun in the home, there is no drill sergeant in your face constantly to keep you out of trouble. Safe gun handling requires the utmost in self-discipline and mental alertness. You treat a gun like an airline pilot treats an aircraft with many innocent folks on board. Respect any gun like any body of water.


A gun (or a chainsaw) is a dumb unintelligent mechanical object. It can't read human state of mind.

The human might have even been fatigued or tired. He should have gone to bed instead of doing dry practice in that state. Try to stay away from guns if you are emotionally distraught. Fight with significant other. Rough day at work. Guns take a high level of alertness and attention to procedural detail to safely master. There's the danger of becoming overconfident when having been around firearms for a long time.

There are no dangerous firearms, only dangerous human minds that are impaired.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Negligent discharge is also not correct, despite how much you want to jump on board with anti gunners and use their terminology.

I respectfully disagree. Negligent discharge is correct for when a firearm is fired through unintended human action, as opposed to mechanical malfunction (which would qualify as an accidental discharge). And, for the record, I have heard (and used) the term "negligent discharge" innumerable times, and I have never before seen or heard it referred to as anti-gunner terminology.

Definition of "negligent":

Definition of negligent

1a : marked by or given to neglect especially habitually or culpably
b : failing to exercise the care expected of a reasonably prudent person in like circumstances

2 : marked by a carelessly easy manner

negligent
adjective

not being careful or giving enough attention to people or things that are your responsibility:

Guns are dangerous. Unintended discharges can hurt or kill people, which is why we are supposed to be careful when working with firearms. In that context, I respectfully submit that I don't understand how an unintended discharge not attributable to mechanical malfunction could be anything other than negligent.

* Did the gun fire? Yes.

* Did you intend to fire it? No.

* Was there a mechanical malfunction? No

* Negligent discharge. Q.E.D.

 

[JohnKSa]

Here's a poll from another forum with almost 600 responses selecting options that applied to their unintentional discharge.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-did-your-unintentional-discharge-happen.114287/

Only about 12% occur as the result of the trigger snagging on something, the gun being dropped. or parts breaking in the gun. We tend to worry a lot about these kinds of incidents, but even when you roll them all together into one category, the still account for a relatively small percentage of the overall picture.

Another 14% or so are the result of the trigger doubling (the gun firing a second time unintentionally immediately after the gun was fired intentionally) which is usually not a big problem since the gun was intentionally being fired it was presumably being pointed in a safe direction at the time.

A little over 50% happen when the shooter intentionally pulls the trigger.

Another 20% happen when the shooter unintentionally pulls the trigger.

The last three categories all involve the shooter's finger being on the trigger. Which means that if you don't want the gun to go off, keep your finger out of the trigger guard-that eliminates about 85% of unintentional discharges.

Dry firing is a good practice technique and can be done safely, but it's important to understand that it's breaking the first rule of how to avoid unintentional discharges---keep your finger off the trigger.

That means that it's extremely important to implement other safety protocols and stick to them religiously when dryfiring.

1. When dryfiring, ALWAYS fully check the gun to make sure it is unloaded before starting.
*EVERY time you put it down, check it fully again when you pick it up.
*EVERY time you resume dryfiring after any kind of a break, check it fully again when you start up again even if you didn't put the gun down.
*If you are distracted or interrupted, check it fully again when you get back to dryfiring even if you didn't put the gun down.
*Always check the chamber(s) both visually and manually. If it's a revolver, be sure to check EVERY chamber carefully.

2. When dryfiring, always use a backstop of some kind. A bookcase full of books, a heavy piece of furniture, a brick wall, etc. Something that will stop the bullet if something goes wrong.

3. When dryfiring, NEVER point the gun at yourself, another person, any animal or any valuable property. If there IS an unintentional discharge it doesn't have to be a tragedy.

4. When dryfiring, NEVER have live ammunition within reach. If it's a gun that is normally loaded, unload it in another room and dryfire in a room with no ammunition in it.

5. Dryfiring requires the same unloading & safety procedure every time. If you're going to dryfire 100 times, go through the entire procedure. If you're just going to dryfire 1 time, go through the entire procedure. If you're going to do 2 sessions with a short break in between, go through the entire procedure at the beginning and then again after the short break.

6. Don't dryfire if you are tired, distracted, impaired or can't devote your full attention to the process.

 

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Personally I also believe that a person's mindset can be dangerous. For example I think some people tend to think too highly of their safety skills. They feel they are above doing something stupid or incapable of being distracted. I have heard so many times on the internet people quote "Your finger is the best safety". I think that phrase is misleading. There is much more to safety than that.
A example would be the time I shot myself in the foot with a Pellet Pistol as mentioned above. My finger WAS off the trigger. So what? It was not handled right. It was "preventable". It was Not a accident simply because the light weight Target trigger had been adjusted so low from the factory.

How many times do you see a car crash and call it a accident? In almost every single case it was "Preventable" to some degree.

 

[AlongCameJones]

One should never ever pretend to play Russian roulette on themselves with a genuine revolver even if they cleared the gun 10 times in a row immediately beforehand.

This is truly courting one's own death.

I also have had a bad habit of looking at a gun and admiring it in my hands while I KNOW the gun has ammo in it. I have recently resolved to break this habit for good.

 

[Brit]

B&H Guns was originally the Glock Dealer on Merrit Island. Parking behind the store walked into a just happened N/G!
A Police Officer from a local Dept, with his Glock 19 in a belt holster, with a coat with a loose cord that held the bottom of the coat tight, somehow invaded the trigger guard BANG!
He produced a knife and totally removed this cord. Everybody looked shocked.
That smell of a fresh gun discharge told the story.

 

[Arcsylver]

Well..... since this happened to me rather recently I will take the risk and share my tale of personal stupidity.

I was sitting in my living room and decided it was time to do my monthly cleaning of my carry gun. A sig P3230 that I carry off body in a shoulder bag with a kydex holster inside my shoulder bag. The holster is attached to the bag via hook and loop.

I carefully draw the pistol out of my bag and drop the mag, then, because I had just purchased some shiny new bright orange Chamber empty flags with chamber block, I deviated from my usual routine. I stopped the unload, rack slide, visually and physically inspect the chamber routine I always use. I instead stopped and fumbled around for that chamber flag then bad things (tm) happened.

What I usually do AFTER emptying the chamber and verifying it is pull the trigger to release the sear. Which has pretty much become muscle memory at this point. I interrupted the usual cycle and without thinking I pull the trigger. BANG. A 90gr. Underwood Xtreme Defender round discharges and rips though the sofa, into the wall and , thankfully, comes to rest somewhere inside the wall cavity.

After checking that neither myself or my spouse was injured I immediately call the local police to report the ND. Yes I reported my own ND to the cops.

The police arrive and find that my pistol is completely unloaded with the chamber flag in it sitting on my gun cleaning table in my "gun room" with all my misc. things in OCD level organization. I explain what happened etc etc. They go to the neighbors apartment that the wall that was hit belongs to to verify the round did not penetrate into the next apartment and that no-one was injured.

Thankfully the police wrote up the report but did NOT file any charges for the incident. That report is now framed and hanging on my wall in my gun room and is now a talisman reminder of following all safety protocols without distraction.

The lessons learned from this experience were many but I will sum them up as thus.

1. NEVER let yourself be distracted when handling a weapon regardless of if you "know" it isnt loaded.

2. Getting complacent in your safety process will eventually bite you in the butt and someone could pay dearly for your complacency.

3. Having a "safety bucket" when living in an apartment is a definite good idea. After this happened I bought a 5 gallon steel bucket and 50 pounds of sand and made myself a clearing bucket to add an extra level of "just in case I missed something" to my unloading and reloading procedures.


No-one is immune to ND's. Anyone who tells you they will never have one is either clueless or an accident waiting to happen. Always be safe with your guns and never treat them like toys or as an afterthought.

 

[Logs]

My father and I were shooting an M1 Garand match at Camp Perry and his Garand had a Slam Fire when he released the action. Got a Zero which hurt is score, but no one was hurt. Scared the heck out of us. We were using Greek Ammo provided by the CMP folks so not sure what happened exactly. We have shot a bunch after that and it has not happened again.

 

[Pahoo]

Concentration !!!!

I deviated from my usual routine.

These are the times when I come close to getting in potential trouble. It's the four basic safety rules that have saved me from getting into trouble, along with my daily prayers. .....

During our Hunter Safety, live fire periods, I help teach M/L's and do all the loading demos. While another instructor is explaining the loading steps and components I concentrate on loading, "Only". Sure enough, once in awhile I have to add some comments and those are the times, I can get my share of Dry-Ball. I take the opportunity to use this for as teaching moment. ....

One way or another, we have used little hints/routines, to keep us safe. One that I have used lately, is to say; "GUN", every time I touch one and it works..


Be Safe !!!

 

[ghbucky]

I had a very big wake-up moment this weekend.

I recently set up a car holster, which is just a holster velcroe'd to the passenger seat. (I usually ride shotgun and the wife drives).

We pulled into the driveway and I was looking up some nonsense or other on my phone and went to retrieve my striker fired handgun while still looking at my phone.

Thankfully, for whatever the reason my focus suddenly switched COMPLETELY to the fact that my trigger finger was ON the trigger. No pressure applied, but there I was doing a very stupid thing.

No handling a gun while distracted <-- lesson received!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

We pulled into the driveway and I was looking up some nonsense or other on my phone and went to retrieve my striker fired handgun while still looking at my phone.

Thankfully, for whatever the reason my focus suddenly switched COMPLETELY to the fact that my trigger finger was ON the trigger. No pressure applied, but there I was doing a very stupid thing.

No handling a gun while distracted <-- lesson received!

There may be another lesson in there, too.

WHY did your finger automatically go on the trigger? In general, I submit that this falls under the category of muscle memory. If the body performs certain functions or operations in the same way repeatedly, eventually the body (muscle memory) learns the action and the action becomes automatic, or instinctive. In other words, habit.

Any other time when you draw or pick up a firearm, when does your finger go on the trigger? Is it possible that you have an ingrained habit of putting your finger on the trigger before you have the sights on the intended target?

I grew up in the days of the 1950s television westerns, and cop shows like Dragnet. Gun handling on television and in the movies when I was a youth was pretty terrible, so I "learned" from watching all those shows and movies that when you pick up a gun you put your finger on the trigger.

It took me a long time to train myself out of that when I was old enough to have my own firearms, and I recognized that what I had been doing was dangerous.

 

[ghbucky]

WHY did your finger automatically go on the trigger? In general, I submit that this falls under the category of muscle memory. If the body performs certain functions or operations in the same way repeatedly, eventually the body (muscle memory) learns the action and the action becomes automatic, or instinctive. In other words, habit.

Any other time when you draw or pick up a firearm, when does your finger go on the trigger? Is it possible that you have an ingrained habit of putting your finger on the trigger before you have the sights on the intended target?

It is a very valid question, and one I've been pondering. I used to shoot a lot of steel, IDPA and whatever other type of match I could find, so I thought my draw stroke and indexed trigger finger were pretty ingrained.

I think that's why my focus so dramatically switched because what I was doing was ABNORMAL and not at all normal.

But, your question is a damn good one, and one I don't have an answer for.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Possibly your mind has internalized one type of trigger discipline as being for competition, and another as being for real life?

Dunno. 'Tis a conundrum.

 

[ghbucky]

Now that I think about it with a little more distance, I realized that I haven't actually practiced the draw and presentation in some time.

Looks like I need to bone up on my handgun handling.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

And there's an additional factor for those of us who carry pistols with external safeties: when do you disengage the safety?

I carry a 1911, and when I was competing I used a Para-Ordnance double stack 1911. I sweep the safety off as my presentation is at around halfway through the arc from vertical to horizontal (muzzle about 45 degrees to the ground). I've encountered people who disengage the safety before drawing or during the draw, while the gun is still in the holster.

 

[Blue Duck]

Well, I will tell you, a much larger percentage of ND's happen to people who shoot and handle guns a lot, then most want to admit. I am not the first one who ever said that, but I agree, and I have know of several among seasoned (very seasoned and experienced shooters), but that still leaves plenty of room left for the rank amateur, to have one also.

Whatever other rules you follow, the main one is never let the muzzle cover something you are not willing to shoot. At least if you will follow that one rule, if and I might even say when, it might happen to you, it will not result in a tragic ending.

 

[Brit]

I lived in an Apartment after my Divorce, a friend of mine dropped in for a coffee, and to get warm! 40F Below! A Toronto Police Officer. He liked my Walther PPK in .380.
Took it out of the safe, did not bother to unload it, just said "There's one in the pipe, remember?" He said "Sure" and put that round into the living room wall, double brick outside wall. I wrote his name next to the hole!
I patched the problem and painted over it, gone. Sold it to him later. No, I did not report it. That was a long time ago, he still has it.
He is retired now, still likes his firearms.
I sold him a BSA Bolt Action Rifle, he hunts each hunting season.
It looks like the day he bought it, even better. He added a scope.

 

[JohnKSa]

How not to deal with hot brass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq1NsABn5D0

The video is age restricted, you will have to sign in to youtube to watch it.

For those who don't want to watch the video, let's just say that no matter how much hot brass down your shirt hurts, you can make it worse with poor muzzle control and bad trigger finger discipline.

When you lose your concentration, it will be your training and ingrained habits that either kick in and save you, or fail, depending on your level of training/preparation.

This person survived, but it was a matter of inches.

 

[stuckinthe60s]

stuck firing pin on a semi auto cooked one off on me when it was racked. pointed down range. all was well.