Who here fights ?

I think there are probably exceptions to every rule. We've all known individuals with no training who were hell in a real fight.

That having been said, I think it's obvious that those who receive some realistic training do better on the street. If nothing else, the sight of my oft-broken nose should serve as a warning that I can at least take a punch. Actually, come to think of it, it's probably more of an indication of inefficient blocking skills on my part. I'm going to have to think about that one. :)
 
I used to lead with my chin in my first year of boxing.
Then I discovered that blocking and dodging worked, with less healing. Just because you "CAN" take it doesn't mean you "Should" take it.
Happy Blocking...................
 
I think the kind of competitions he's talking about are the limited-rules mixed martial arts competitions like the UFC, IFC, pitfights, etc. where only biting, eyegouges and groin shots are "outlawed." I say that in quotes because not everything is picked up by the ref and places like Brazil tend to be a little bit more liberal on the rules if you can believe it.

I have tapes of fights where people are bitten, eyegouged and hit in the stones and some do come back and win the fight. Others do not. The point is, they are very aware and are frequently exposed to techniques that people think they will "sneak" into a fight when in combat with mixed martial artists. Aside from exclusive combat arenas like TKD rules events, point fighting in Karate, forms in Kung Fu, etc. the days of the single style martial artist dominating limited-rules competitions are on their way out.

This is absolutely no way a slam on traditional martial arts , especially the mental and spiritual faculties that they serve to develop. But in streetfights, I do pity the person that underestimates the hybrid fighter, or those that crosstrain in solid striking and grappling arts.

Everything is possible in a fight, but crosstraining definately opens many eyes and minds and evens the odds. Thai fighters use grappling positions to augment their striking if taken to the ground by a wrestler. A judoka uses boxing jabs and thai kicks to keep an opponent at a proper distance until he commits to an attack whereas the judoka can utilize this momentum to throw instead of attempting a sacrifice throw on the sidewalk.

The scary thing is that, just like gangbangers are learning what ammunition is the most effective, they are also learning mixed martial arts. A gang around Phoenix was recently known to have used Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tactics to beat up on kids... no longer the sloppy beatdown, but a slow, methodical one that bolsters their egos and end up doing much more psychological and physical damage to their victims.

I guess I'm rambling at this point, but I do feel that if you are considering learning martial arts or getting your kids into MAs, give serious thought to crosstraining. Fortunately, thugs rarely have the heart and persistance to take such training to the next level.
 
Excellent, Krept!

The value of cross-training is undoubtable.

When choosing martial arts, I've always been told to 'shop around'. Try this style and that, see what fits best for you. Every person is different, both physically and mentally. The agressive, hard-hitting types may prefer fighting sports like Muay Thai and Boxing; the more analytical types may prefer traditional martial arts. Some people need to learn to defend themselves in a short period of time - self defence courses have been developed for those people.

IMHO, a genuine martial artist must be open-minded. Otherwise s/he will only see fighting from the perspective of his or her style. If someone who is used to fighting only wrestlers suddenly confronts an Aikido exponent, he may as well be defeated due to his ignorance of how Aikido works. An experienced Judoka who has never been exposed to boxing may lose a fight against a boxer, because the two styles are so much different. True understanding of martial arts and fighting can only be achieved by diligent practice and exposure to and respect for other styles and fighters.

Ok, I've ranted too long... :) But the point is, one must keep his or her mind open, in order to better understand how to deal with dangerous confrontations. A full-contact fighter must respect the capabilities of semi or non-contact stylists - and vice versa.
 
Agree 100% Krept and SamH. You know during the 60s and 70s there seemed to be an air of mystery or sense of invicibility attached to those who studied martial arts such as Karate and Kung Fu. I was somewhat like that as a teenager during the 70s but something did not quite register right. I was in alot of "street" fights then and knew that one on one that most of the fights ended up on the ground but not all. Thank God for wrestling knowledge for me back then. I was convinced back then that one must have some skill in another facet of fighting. I studied American Style Karate back then. Later I studied both Judo and Okinawan Kempo Karate from which I received my 1st Dan. When the Ultimate Fighting Championships first started airing, I knew that the proof was in the pudding. My wife was certain that only stand up strikers would prevail and that I was off of my rocker. Well, she soon became a believer. If I remember correctly, did not Bruce Lee become a student of wrestling also knowing the reality of combat. Sorry for rambling but I agree mixed martial arts is the reality of today.
 
Okay,guys, but...

First, I want to ask you guys this...you mean blocking punches with your face isn't a blocking technique?

Seriously, when I met Bruce Lee and he issued that challenge to Black Belts of any martial arts school to try to take him on when he opened up his L.A. school? I had already had 7 years of serious training in Shotokan, Tang Soo Do, Kempo, and jiujitsu (6 days a week, about 8 hours a day) and he completely dominated me.

Sam and Krept, I do respect both traditional and contact because that's what I searched for in my 40 some odd years of training, and each has it's value...but as you get older...immediate and direct deep hurting techniques are what works in real life...that and the attitude that you have nothing to lose.

I learned that one from Bruce....he warned me to never get in a fight with someone who has more to lose than you are.

I believe that he started into the wrestling stuff in the later '60's...I'm not sure because I was doing some more searching at the time...it was called Vietnam, Republic of...

I wonder if some of the other old timers that trained with Bruce or Danny Inosanto at that time, remembers....but he did add on stuff in the 60's and 70's.
 
Good post.

I will always respect traditional martial arts, in fact, i do plan on returning to Aikido when I am ready. I truly feel that it is the most complete martial art (for me), but at this stage in my life, it is hard to dedicate myself to a "way" (as in "-do" as opposed to "-jitsu or -jutsu."

I started Aikido over ten years ago, but didn't stick with it because I was overwhelmed with it's complexity. My father started it probably 6 years ago and has acheived a black belt from a renowned instructor in the D.C. area whose name I cannot remember at this time. Needless to say, I am proud to have that to look forward to.


As far as blocking punches with your face... I'm not proud of it, but my girlfriend's father is an ex-biker that has done some hard time in the pen. One thing (the only thing) he has told me about fights in the can is that they usually start with a sucker punch, fast and furious. He said on several times a person would attempt a sucker punch to his face and he would tip his jaw into his chest and expose his forehead, kind of like a ram does when in a butting battle. he said more often than not, it resulted in a broken hand for the puncher.

I'm sure you know there is a fine line for this, however, I've seen several people try to block a knee in a thai fight, only to have it land right on their grill :eek:.
 
Hi LASur5r,

it's good to see dedicated martial artists like yourself sharing thoughts with us amateurs. :)

I'm a fan of traditional martial arts, but have also trained in Muay Thai. My experiences are limited, at best, and I've been in Kung Fu for only 5 years.

Blocking punches with the face? I've seen some tough-nuts blocking punches with their forehead, but not on the face.

A comment on Krept's mention of blocking the Muay Thai knee. As far as I know, it's impossible to block them without doing damage to yourself. They can be dodged or diverted - depending on the competence of the attacker, but I would like to know if there really is an effective block against it.
 
Face block?

Sam H.,
That was a small joke...very small...
That's what happens when the opponent penetrates your defenses and nails you in the face. Instead of saying that he nailed you in the face, you say that you blocked his punch with your face....uh, well...had to be there.

Anyway, I believe this kind of forum is for the purpose of sharing knowledge and experience so that we can all learn so that we can improve ourselves.

I believe that TFL is a fine example of what could happen when a lot of people of like thinking can share their thoughts. Sometimes controversial, sometimes not, but you still need different input so that you can evaluate for yourself what choices you will make.

When I was chasing martial arts, I was lucky enough to start with jiujitsu from a hardcore, "fighting" instructor, but then I was lulled by the formal "art" schools like Shotokan, Hapkido, Tang Soo Do, just before their schools started to go tournament. Then Kempo and Tang Soo Do went into tournaments big time. I competed against folks like Chuck Norris, Mike Stone, the Urquidez brothers, etc...but when Benny went full contact I got into that line, too, mainly because of "trying" my hand against Bruce Lee...totally kicked my a$$. I reminded myself that I was in the arts for self-defense.
I started training seriously to achieve that part only, when I went to Vietnam and did a tour there. I got to use what little I had learned...I had also taught a few guys some really practical, simple stuff and that knowledge also saved their lives during their time there.
When I returned stateside, I pursued learning to do what works for me. I then started teaching after having "tried" in real street fights the techniques that I taught...but it wasn't so much the techniques, it's like Bruce taught"You learn to swim when you get in the water and swim, until then it is only practice."
I was "attacked" by three guys with guns....I was lucky in that I disarmed one, neutralized the second one, and caused the third one to run away...all without getting hurt and without a shot being fired. The Lord was good to me.
I experienced more of these experiences and have gone on to teach people the same method of learning since the 80's and many of them have successfully survived street encounters with only about 6+ months of training.

This is a long way of saying that all of you can do the same thing...just follow what Bruce advised me to do.
"Learn what is effective for you and discard all that is not useful, then practice, practice, practice( with real partners)

It's that simple, yet it is that hard. Good luck to all you fighters out there who are "practicing" to perfect their "art."
 
Greetings to All:

When someone is young and interested in martial arts, they want to know a lot of it's kind. Someone want hard practice in martial arts for his own defensive tools. Others for the trophy in competition. Both purpose are good. In real fight, all our martial arts know-how are helpful but they are not a guarranty we are invincible. A nail cutter small knife in it could kill if someone knows how to use the same through to MA's knowledge. The same as to several kinds of martial arts, they are all good for our self defense when they are needed.

I was in a street fight last December for I was held up by two addicts, mind you I was so tired and could hardly breath after the exchanges of blows and kicks because I am not as that prowess when I was in my early 20's.

Good luck to your coming competition.
 
Nope, never have.
That's why I pack two equalizers for use after plans A and B have failed.
C. Pepper Spray
D. Either 9mm Keltec or 45acp Ruger

plan A is avoid it in the first place - it's worked for 50 years
plan B is to BS out of it or beat feet out of there

okay, supplemental to B is the deterrance factor of a six cell mag lite.
 
ISO 1 "SCARS" training

I suggest you avoid "SCARS" from what little I've seen of their techniques, they seem more Martial Arts than Many Mc Dojo's out there, despite what they claim.

If you want to learn how to fight. Checkout your local Muay Thai, Krav Maga, and Boxing gyms. They'll get you on the road quicker to fighting than any others.

Also If you want to more info on SCARS, check out yahoo clubs. They have one for SCARS. I personally consider it the best reason for avoiding SCARS...IMHO
 
Sorry boys, I'm too old and slow. This stuff is a young mans game. One thing I do remember, though, is what I was trained to do, when against a skilled MA opponent. Shoot them, quickly, before they hurt you.

My fighting experience was limited to the bar variety. It's hard to defend against a well-aimed bottle, chair or stool. Some people, who are very good, can operate in this environment and not get hurt too bad, but anyone can be hit. The good guys usually get hit from behind, is all.

LaSur5r, I recall that Bruce Lee did study wrestling, and boxing, and just about any form of personal combat he could dig up. He included firearms and edged weapons, and incorporated what he learned into his later technique and instruction. He did not like guns, mainly because they were impossible to defend against if used by someone who knew what they were doing (i.e., outside HTH range). This is one reason he advocated fast closing of the range, as it was the only way to combat a firearm, or leaving before shots were fired, if closing to attack was not possible. His movement in closing to attack is/was an amazing thing to see, keeping in mind that he tended to slow down for film, as full speed would not have been very 'entertaining'.

I have to admit, I admire anyone who would willingly get into a fight with him, although, on the other hand, you never get better if you always fight people you can beat. It's too bad he died so young. He was a very interesting guy, as a person, and had a great deal to say about his philosophy and art. I would have liked to see him adapt to the aging process.
 
LASur5r,

Where did you train in Judo? I train in Tustin with Sensei Bunasawa. I also have done Jiu Jitsu with Joe Moriera in Costa Mesa and Shotokan in El Toro.

I couldn't agree more. You need to learn several arts. Almost all the guys studying BJJ have a black belt in a striking art or are JKD students.



Dave
Mission Viejo
 
An observation and a question...

I just got back from two months in the P.R.C. I watched a lot of TV there, and the shows are full of the mythical martial arts. They have several Chinese 'Old West' style shows - back in the glory days of the warlords. There is a lot of jumping onto a roof from the ground, or over the building. Flying ninja stuff. Or a palm heel strike to a granite column that knocks fragments off the opposite side so fast that they penetrate a wall. Or punching a granite ball (size of a bowling ball) and disintegrating it. All garbage, of course.

OTOH, they show some amazing coordination, in stuff that does not look at all fake. Like a group doing hand katas - while standing on their heads.


But then there are the modern Kung Fu bouts televised almost nightly. A little kicking, a few simple grab-him-behind-the-knees-and-power-him-down throws, and a lot of boxing.

A world of difference between the two, and it looked to me like a competent American boxer would do pretty well with those rules. (Although there was one obvious American there who did not do well. This guy looked like he has an I.Q. around 75 - just a real stoooopid look on his face at all times. Embarrassing.)

Interesting. Comments?


Here's the question, which is not related to the above: How valuable is the garden variety judo school as an introduction to MA for small children? (6-12 yrs)
 
How usefull the garden variety of judo is for smaller kids? My uncle's kids have been expelled from a school after almost killing a 'poor, disenchanted boy coming from a civil war' who tried to rob them of their lunch money at knifepoint. They broke one of his arms, and with a shoulder throw on hard concrete, broke his left femur.

So far, these two kids didn't have too many problems with folks from the Balkans.
 
My 9 year old loves Judo. I go to class with him. He is learning to pin and throw. I teach him finishing moves at home since they won't let him do armbars in class with the other kids. Heck, I would not want a 9 year old tweaking my sons arm. Too easy for a kid with limited maturity to screw up.

The good part is that he likes it. That is half the battle. I will see that he learns striking skills later.

Dave
 
Great posts so far.

Back in the day, I managed to get an orange belt in TSD, but I was a wee little tyke at the time and don't know how much I remember or could use in a fight. I do, however, watch a lot of Jackie Chan flicks and am sure I would acquit myself admirably.

Seriously, though, I have thought about getting back into the arts. My only problem is finding a place to go. Seems Greenville is seriously lacking any of the more interesting artforms. Heck, I can't even find a boxing gym.

Anyhow, I completely agree that training in multiple arts is a must. Right now, I'm training in .45 and .38.
 
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