Who do you support now (03/08/08)

That is the most proposterous and asinine thing I have ever heard. If you are a conservative, there is only one person that you can consider voting for in this upcoming election and that is McCain. Even though most conservatives arent thrilled about him, the two democratic candidates are so far to the left, how can they be considered? If you want someone who is more conservative then McCain, why would you vote for someone who is more liberal then McCain?!?!?

I'm extracting my pound of flesh from the GOP. And with Hillary we know she is anti-gun. We know our enemy. I'd rather vote and know what we'd be getting, even if I know it to be the wrong answer then take a chance at something worse. And your kidding about McCain being the only choice for a conservitave right?
 
Hillary in conjunction with a GOP congress will be grid lock. She also has been in politics long enough to remember the aftermath of the 94AWB and what it did to her party. And you realy don't think McCain is any better do you?

Your not paying attention to current politcal trends. The GOP lost control of the house in 2006 by a wide margin, both parties have equal seats in the Senate. According to the most politcal analyst The Dems with further their control of the House and Senate in the next election. That means a Democrat super majority in 2009. Basically the GOP will go back to pre 1994 small minority party in Congress. If one of the Democrat is elected they will have a Democrat congress to pass anything they want. At least with McCain there will be grid lock for the most part. That is better than a Congress that will rubber stamp anything a Dem president wants passed including more gun control.
 
Politics in a democracy is all about compromise. If we don't vote for the party's candidate who has the best chance of winning (out of some desire to punish the RNC) then we are giving it away to our opponents.

It is pragmatic to make do with the best we have. Get McCain in there and then apply conservative pressure to him.
 
It is pragmatic to make do with the best we have. Get McCain in there and then apply conservative pressure to him.
How exactly do you apply pressure to him after you've already voted him into office? Threaten to not vote for him the next time? Then you'll just be right back at this position right here.

Voting for McCain doesn't enable anyone to pressure on him, it merely signifies to the Republican Party that McCain is the type of conservative the base wants.
 
Well with McCain getting the GOP and Obama and Hillary battling for the DFL?

I don't support any of the current three frontrunners. McCain has a helluva hill to climb for me to even consider him. In the meantime, if the general election were today, I will be writing my vote in that nice little blank space....
 
McCain's the only option now.


Clinton would be preferable to Obama (I think). She's the same kind of sociopath as her husband, so she'll respond to simple stimuli. Bill's were pizza and girls. Hillary's are unknown right now, but she probably just wants to act big and have everybody kiss her butt. That's OK, I guess.


Obama's more of a hardcore radical Marxist anti-West nutjob. Which means the reaction to him will be stronger and maybe better for the GOP in the long run, but think of the damage he could potentially do in America's highest office in four years.
 
Since McC will probably win TX, I'll probably vote libertarian. That is what I did in 04 since it was obvious that Bush would win TX.
 
"or else he wouldnt be here...":confused: While I am not a democrap I don't remember seeing a rule at TFL when I joined stating this was a republican only board. My gramma and grampa were devout dems and gun owners and both carried a life member NRA card on up to the pearly gates so st.pete would fergive their democrap antics...
Brent
 
Obama's more of a hardcore radical Marxist anti-West nutjob.
People keep claiming this but have you even read Marx? Can you describe exactly how he or Hillary is actually "marxist" or is just more name-calling?

Anti-west?
 
hogdogs,
While I am not a democrap I don't remember seeing a rule at TFL when I joined stating this was a republican only board.
It's not. The problem lies in your definition of "Democrat".
Every one of the criteria you label as "Democrat" are actually conservative.
If you were to re-animate Jefferson, Goldwater, or Reagan, I suspect you'd be shocked to learn what they have to say on these subjects.
 
Redworm said:
How exactly do you apply pressure to him after you've already voted him into office? Threaten to not vote for him the next time? Then you'll just be right back at this position right here.

The President is not a dictator. His actions are quite constrained by the other two branches of government, lobbyists, and the will of the people.

Clinton ran as a centrist, and upon entering office, paid off political debts to leftist special interests who put him there. Remember gays in the military?

If McCain is beholden to 2nd Amdt voters, (and he will need them) the pressure can be applied.
 
Using labels in discourse of this kind is dangerous business. Nonetheless, I will label myself as a libertarian (lower-case "L", you see) at heart...but it may be more accurate to label myself as an anarchist in that I think people should be good enough to form a functioning society without government. However, I also label myself as somewhat a realist, and I know that what should be and what is are two different species.

That said, I would like to lay the blame for the state of affairs within the republican party at my own feet as a Libertarian (notice the upper-case "L"). We Libertarians are imbued with this if-I-don't-get-my-way-I'm-taking-my-ball-and-going-home attitude that has left the republican party in the hands of the liberals so often referred to as RINOs.

For better or for worse, we have a two-party system. That's just the way it is, and Libertarians are just going to have to learn to live with it. We are not going to get it all our way. The best we can hope for is to keep the republican party from degenerating any further, and maybe in time we can whip it back into shape. But there is no worse time than now to keep playing this stupid Libertarian game, because if we do, the democrats will take total control of this country and turn it into a "socialist workers' paradise" that we will never be able to undo without bloodshed. They will consolidate power, once and for all, and you can bet your last dollar that they will fix it so that no conservative will ever rise to a position of influence ever again.

Libertarians, now is the time to look at the world as it really is, not how we would like it to be. Rejoin the ranks of the republicans and push the party towards the Constitution. If you do, we will engage an uphill battle we can win. If you do not, we are throwing in the towel and the party's over.
 
Well, I'm not afraid to label myself. Conservative Democrat. Might have been a Rep in a different life, I'm not sure. Really don't know who I will vote for in the general election yet. Will vote against Obama in the primary. I expect the same positions out of him and Hillary on guns. I do however take huge issue w/ Obamas' stance on supporting most of the farming and ranching welfare going on in this country. He is obviously trying to capture some midwestern corn grower or western wheat grower votes away from the Reps. I do agree with the idea of a Rep Prez and Dem congress or vice versa. I think it allows the moderates in the middle to build common sense policy as opposed to one wing(right or left) being able to run roughshod over the country. I think we need to keep in mind that our founding fathers set this country up to have checks and balances in place to combat the above scenario. No one single branch of government getting too much power.
elkman06
 
Obama Marxist?

In his biography of Barack Obama, David Mendell writes about Obama's life as a "secret smoker" and how he "went to great lengths to conceal the habit." But what about Obama's secret political life? It turns out that Obama's childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.

In his books, Obama admits attending "socialist conferences" and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a "hard-core academic Marxist," which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes.

However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his "poetry" and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just "Frank."

The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What's more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.

Trevor Loudon, a New Zealand-based libertarian activist, researcher and blogger, noted evidence that "Frank" was Frank Marshall Davis in a posting in March of 2007.

Obama's communist connection adds to mounting public concern about a candidate who has come out of virtually nowhere, with a brief U.S. Senate legislative record, to become the Democratic Party frontrunner for the U.S. presidency. In the latest Real Clear Politics poll average, Obama beats Republican John McCain by almost four percentage points.

AIM recently disclosed that Obama has well-documented socialist connections, which help explain why he sponsored a "Global Poverty Act" designed to send hundreds of billions of dollars of U.S. foreign aid to the rest of the world, in order to meet U.N. demands. The bill has passed the House and a Senate committee, and awaits full Senate action.

But the Communist Party connection through Davis is even more ominous. Decades ago, the CPUSA had tens of thousands of members, some of them covert agents who had penetrated the U.S. Government. It received secret subsidies from the old Soviet Union.

You won't find any of this discussed in the David Mendell book, Obama: From Promise to Power. It is typical of the superficial biographies of Obama now on the market. Secret smoking seems to be Obama's most controversial activity. At best, Mendell and the liberal media describe Obama as "left-leaning."

But you will find it briefly discussed, sort of, in Obama's own book, Dreams From My Father. He writes about "a poet named Frank," who visited them in Hawaii, read poetry, and was full of "hard-earned knowledge" and advice. Who was Frank? Obama only says that he had "some modest notoriety once," was "a contemporary of Richard Wright and Langston Hughes during his years in Chicago..." but was now "pushing eighty." He writes about "Frank and his old Black Power dashiki self" giving him advice before he left for Occidental College in 1979 at the age of 18.

This "Frank" is none other than Frank Marshall Davis, the black communist writer now considered by some to be in the same category of prominence as Maya Angelou and Alice Walker. In the summer/fall 2003 issue of African American Review, James A. Miller of George Washington University reviews a book by John Edgar Tidwell, a professor at the University of Kansas, about Davis's career, and notes, "In Davis's case, his political commitments led him to join the American Communist Party during the middle of World War II-even though he never publicly admitted his Party membership." Tidwell is an expert on the life and writings of Davis.

Is it possible that Obama did not know who Davis was when he wrote his book, Dreams From My Father, first published in 1995? That's not plausible since Obama refers to him as a contemporary of Richard Wright and Langston Hughes and says he saw a book of his black poetry.

The communists knew who "Frank" was, and they know who Obama is. In fact, one academic who travels in communist circles understands the significance of the Davis-Obama relationship.

Professor Gerald Horne, a contributing editor of the Communist Party journal Political Affairs, talked about it during a speech last March at the reception of the Communist Party USA archives at the Tamiment Library at New York University. The remarks are posted online under the headline, "Rethinking the History and Future of the Communist Party."

Horne, a history professor at the University of Houston, noted that Davis, who moved to Honolulu from Kansas in 1948 "at the suggestion of his good friend Paul Robeson," came into contact with Barack Obama and his family and became the young man's mentor, influencing Obama's sense of identity and career moves. Robeson, of course, was the well-known black actor and singer who served as a member of the CPUSA and apologist for the old Soviet Union. Davis had known Robeson from his time in Chicago.

As Horne describes it, Davis "befriended" a "Euro-American family" that had "migrated to Honolulu from Kansas and a young woman from this family eventually had a child with a young student from Kenya East Africa who goes by the name of Barack Obama, who retracing the steps of Davis eventually decamped to Chicago."

It was in Chicago that Obama became a "community organizer" and came into contact with more far-left political forces, including the Democratic Socialists of America, which maintains close ties to European socialist groups and parties through the Socialist International (SI), and two former members of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), William Ayers and Carl Davidson.

The SDS laid siege to college campuses across America in the 1960s, mostly in order to protest the Vietnam War, and spawned the terrorist Weather Underground organization. Ayers was a member of the terrorist group and turned himself in to authorities in 1981. He is now a college professor and served with Obama on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago. Davidson is now a figure in the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, an offshoot of the old Moscow-controlled CPUSA, and helped organize the 2002 rally where Obama came out against the Iraq War.

Both communism and socialism trace their roots to Karl Marx, co-author of the Communist Manifesto, who endorsed the first meeting of the Socialist International, then called the "First International." According to Pierre Mauroy, president of the SI from 1992-1996, "It was he [Marx] who formally launched it, gave the inaugural address and devised its structure..."

Apparently unaware that Davis had been publicly named as a CPUSA member, Horne said only that Davis "was certainly in the orbit of the CP [Communist Party]-if not a member..."

In addition to Tidwell's book, Black Moods: Collected Poems of Frank Marshall Davis, confirming Davis's Communist Party membership, another book, The New Red Negro: The Literary Left and African American Poetry, 1930-1946, names Davis as one of several black poets who continued to publish in CPUSA-supported publications after the 1939 Hitler-Stalin non-aggression pact. The author, James Edward Smethurst, associate professor of Afro-American studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, says that Davis, however, would later claim that he was "deeply troubled" by the pact.

While blacks such as Richard Wright left the CPUSA, it is not clear if or when Davis ever left the party.

However, Obama writes in Dreams From My Father that he saw "Frank" only a few days before he left Hawaii for college, and that Davis seemed just as radical as ever. Davis called college "An advanced degree in compromise" and warned Obama not to forget his "people" and not to "start believing what they tell you about equal opportunity and the American way and all that ****." Davis also complained about foot problems, the result of "trying to force African feet into European shoes," Obama wrote.

For his part, Horne says that Obama's giving of credit to Davis will be important in history. "At some point in the future, a teacher will add to her syllabus Barack's memoir and instruct her students to read it alongside Frank Marshall Davis' equally affecting memoir, Living the Blues and when that day comes, I'm sure a future student will not only examine critically the Frankenstein monsters that US imperialism created in order to subdue Communist parties but will also be moved to come to this historic and wonderful archive in order to gain insight on what has befallen this complex and intriguing planet on which we reside," he said.

Dr. Kathryn Takara, a professor of Interdisciplinary Studies at the University of Hawaii at Manoa who also confirms that Davis is the "Frank" in Obama's book, did her dissertation on Davis and spent much time with him between 1972 until he passed away in 1987.

In an analysis posted online, she notes that Davis, who was a columnist for the Honolulu Record, brought "an acute sense of race relations and class struggle throughout America and the world" and that he openly discussed subjects such as American imperialism, colonialism and exploitation. She described him as a "socialist realist" who attacked the work of the House Un-American Activities Committee.

Davis, in his own writings, had said that Robeson and Harry Bridges, the head of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) and a secret member of the CPUSA, had suggested that he take a job as a columnist with the Honolulu Record "and see if I could do something for them." The ILWU was organizing workers there and Robeson's contacts were "passed on" to Davis, Takara writes.

Takara says that Davis "espoused freedom, radicalism, solidarity, labor unions, due process, peace, affirmative action, civil rights, Negro History week, and true Democracy to fight imperialism, colonialism, and white supremacy. He urged coalition politics."

Is "coalition politics" at work in Obama's rise to power?

Trevor Loudon, the New Zealand-based blogger who has been analyzing the political forces behind Obama and specializes in studying the impact of Marxist and leftist political organizations, notes that Frank Chapman, a CPUSA supporter, has written a letter to the party newspaper hailing the Illinois senator's victory in the Iowa caucuses.

"Obama's victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle," Chapman wrote. "Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary ‘mole,' not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through."

Let's challenge the liberal media to report on this. Will they have the honesty and integrity to do so?
 
Yes, I've listened to him and nothing to suggest he's "anti-West".

Socialism is not Marxism. Nor are all of his ideas and policies socialist. Both socialism and capitalism are theoretical ideals that are not achievable in the real world. Finding a balance is key and while I prefer a more free market approach it's inaccurate to say that anything shy of sheer capitalism is socialism.
 
I couldn't bring myself to vote for Obama, Hillary or McCain. I'm not yet sure what I'll do. I've never missed a vote for President, so I don't think I would feel right skipping it. I need to see if another party has a candidate that I can stomach, or I'll write someone in.

BTW: I recently returned a survey from the RNC, at the end of which they asked for money. I attached a note to the blank survey telling them to solicit for donations from the illegal aliens they seem to like so much, because I would be changing parties at my earliest opportunity.
 
Who cares. This is the best show playing and I am enjoying just watching.

Lets see:
-Hillary is in number two spot, but she is offering the number two spot to the guy in number one place.

-They are going to re-count Florida & Michigan by mail. The loser will claim voter fraud and refuse to accept the results.

-Hillary will try to use back-room arm twisting & superdelegates at the convention to win the nomination. Obama's people will tear down the hall and kick Hillary out on her rear-end.

All this and it's not even on a pay channel.:D

Only thing that could top this is for McCain to try and makeup to gun owners by promising to buy everyone a new S&W 1911 if he wins.
 
It is now 10 MAR 08...

...and so far I am sticking with my write in candidate...H.R.Pufnstuf...and I urge all other disheartned voters to join me in my cause.

Puf4Prez.jpg
 
I will choose the best option available for president, as well as for senate and congress. Voting my conscience means voting for the individual that is better than the others, even if I don't like many things about him. It's not about voting for who will make me feel better about myself, or help me sleep at night, but who is the best for our country that will actually be able to take the presidency.

Here's some Hillary and Obama info to reference/contrast as well:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/...Control.htm#15
http://www.issues2000.org/2008/Barac...un_Control.htm
 
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