Who and what determines value?

P

Playboypenguin

Moderator
We seem to get a lot of "what guns are over priced" threads lately. These threads really yank my chain sometimes. I just love how people like to arbitrarily pretend like they know what a pistol should cost. Like they understand the materials costs, design costs, production costs, delivery/marketing costs, and the market demand.

It seems to always come down to people attacking any gun that is over $500 and people praising their Kel-Tec's, CZ's, Bersa's, and other less expensive pistols.

I have no problem with most inexpensive pistols, but to pretend you are getting the equal to most more expensive pistols is a bit absurd. You do not always get what you pay for but you even less often get anything you did not pay for. It is just nutty to start trying to say a Seecamp is over-priced because a Kel-tec costs less...or that a 1911 is over-priced because a hi-point is cheaper.

There are lots of things, like high end optics and hand made 1911's, that I either cannot afford or just do not find personally worth the sacrifice of money. That does not mean they are not worth what they cost. My not being able to afford or justify them does not lower their actual value. I do not see why people that are either cheap, frugal, or cash strapped feel the need to pretend otherwise.

Go ahead and buy the lower priced pistols if that is all you can afford, if that is what your prefer, or if that is all you can bring yourself to pay...but do not pretend that the better guns are somehow unworthy of their costs. Some people are happy with guns that are cheaply made and mass produced and some people are not. Some people are happy with a Bic lighter in their pocket and some people would rather have a sterling silver, engraved flint strike in their pocket.
 
The seller proposes the value and the buyer affirms it.

I could take a standard Glock, have an image of a bowler hat engraved on the slide, rub some mint leaves on the grip and thread a sprig of parsley through the trigger guard. That would then be a very rare Glock "Odd Job" custom model, selling for $2000.

Trouble is, my proposal of the value would not be affirmed by a buyer unless he was a bit strange ;)

The old saying is true, however: it is worth exactly what you are willing to pay for it.
 
Trouble is, my proposal of the value would not be affirmed by a buyer unless he was a bit strange
Click to expand...
I'm a bit strange, but I wouldn't buy it. It's still a Glock! I do like the idea, though.

There are many things I cannot afford, but I don't whine about it. Basically, people are telling you what their price sensitivity is, and that they want whatever it is anyway but that the seller wouldn't give it to them. Waaaah!
 
Go ahead and buy the lower priced pistols if that is all you can afford, if that is what your prefer, or if that is all you can bring yourself to pay...but do not pretend that the better guns are somehow unworthy of their costs. Some people are happy with guns that are cheaply made and mass produced and some people are not. Some people are happy with a Bic lighter in their pocket and some people would rather have a sterling silver, engraved flint strike in their pocket.
Click to expand...
Sounds kind of an "elitist" point of view, but difficult to argue against. However, when a good number can't afford the higher-priced weapon what's left for them to say unless they try to rationalize the good points of their pistol.:)
 
I have a wide variety of guns, ranging in value from $125 to over $1500. One thing I have noticed is the $500 price braket is fairly consistent in fit, finish, and quality.

There are a few "upper echelon" makers that I question, but instead of bash, I ignore. Same as some low end makes. I have a Kel-Tec p32 that i trust just as much as my hand built Dan Wesson. Do I think they are equals no! Do I think they do their jobs equally you bet!

I do believe those that can't afford do bash the expensive guns, to bring them down to their level. Just like those that can before tend to "look down " on the cheaper guns. It's just a simple "pecking order" issue. It's for validation purposes from both sides.

My advice, buy what ya want, and what you can afford. Don't worry about mine, and I won't worry about yours!
 
Last edited:
but do not pretend that the better guns are somehow unworthy of their costs
Click to expand...

Economics 101, I suppose. The market determines the value. There is apparently a market for higher-priced guns - whether or not they deserve the higher price in terms of quality is somewhat irrelevant, but people will most often equate higher price with better quality and if the product has longevity in the market, the manufacturer must be doing something right.

I'm with you though, PBP. I tend to believe you get what you pay for for most things (firearms included), but competition always thrives in a free market and there will always be quality, lower-priced alternatives as well.
 
There are lots of things, like high end optics and hand made 1911's, that I either cannot afford or just do not find personally worth the sacrifice of money. That does not mean they are not worth what they cost. My not being able to afford or justify them does not lower their actual value. I do not see why people that are either cheap, frugal, or cash strapped feel the need to pretend otherwise.
Click to expand...

That is the core. Too often, people can't separate value from personal affordability. There are a lot of things that I probably will never be able to own but I can still see the value in them. I'm a nut for old English shotguns, while all but the bottom end (still a couple to several thousand dollars) are out of my range. Same for high end custom guns. I just don't understand why some people have to deride something they cannot afford. Which leads me to say that you do not have to have money to be a snob.

You also don't have to be rich to afford the finer things. You just have to be willing to sacrifice less important things to gain them. With most folks, it's not that they can't afford something, it's that they won't. It's a personal choice. In these days of instant gratification and cheap thrills, few seem willing to save their money towards something. Maybe sacrifice a little for what's important. The Walmart mentality. Then they judge those who do own what they covet as the type who just throws money away when nothing could be further from the truth. That's no way to live.
 
Kel-Tec's, CZ's, Bersa's
Click to expand...
:eek:

Putting CZ in the middle of those gun's is just wrong man,.... just plan wrong!

Otherwise, you make a valid point. They're talking about S&W PC Revolvers right now, saying they are over priced on the revolver board.

Go get'em, and set them straight.
 
If profit margins were limited to 10% of the material and production costs of manufacturing all hanguns, I bet you would be very shocked at the difference in what you would be paying as compared to what you actually spent to buy most of your guns....

Odd job said it best:
The old saying is true, however: it is worth exactly what you are willing to pay for it.
Click to expand...

Demand will, in the end, dictate the final price.
 
You do not always get what you pay for but you even less often get anything you did not pay for.
Click to expand...

That is certainly true.


My not being able to afford or justify them does not lower their actual value.
Click to expand...

I see the opposite thing happening frequently also, particularly in real estate but to a lesser degree almost anything. Somebody from "the city" swoops in and buys a farm in our area for 3X more than any other has gone for and suddenly every property around has "For Sale" signs up with listing 2-3X for what they are appraised.

The same thing happens with guns. Somebody buys a $500 antique gun at an auction for $2000 and suddenly they're all worth that much.

So, I guess to answer your question, the highest bidder determines the value.
 
SIG 210s are the best, HiPoints and Bersas are the worst.

WildfanningtheflamesAlaska TM
Click to expand...

Everyone knows how WildAlaska loves his Bersas. He says things like this so everyone will jump in and say how good Bersas are. WA will then feel vindicated in his 32-gun Bersa collection that is still growing. :D
 
I posted a comment on another thread concerning overated/overpriced guns. I stated that in my opinion the HK was overpriced. I say that due to the fact I usually compare the fit and finish of and HK with a Sig. IMO they are comparable. For my money, I believe that a Sig is worth the money. I never compare a kel-tec with and hk or compare a kel-tec with a Sig. Even though both guns are fundamentally the same(firearms). It is like trying to compare a corvette zr1 with a kia. They both are automobiles, however you wouldn't want to compare the two. It would be unfair to the Kia. Maybe comparing the kia to a Honda fit would be more fair.

I have, in the past , been guilty of stating that something was overpriced. Usually, it was due to me justifying my purchase of a less expensive firearm. If the truth be known, I wanted the more expensive one. Only I didn't have the fundage to buy the more expensive of the two. So I would say,"Yeah that P89 I got is a great gun. I don't know why anyone would want to spend all that money on a Beretta" So now I try to compare firearms that share more DNA...polymer to polymer...1911 colt to 1911 kimber and so on.

Again...this is just me.

PBP... Thanks for the thread!!
 
Last edited:
Too many factors go into this.
Example: 3000 dollars or more for a Mac 10, that before the government made machine gun making illegal, used to be 300 dollars?

Current prices are elevated by our now devalued dollar against the Euro, and, Obama-Democrat mania, making the gun business THE place to be, right now, economy wise....

I'd look at it this way: Are YOU willing to put the money out for the gun? If you are, why? If I was rich, and, I wanted a certain gun, I'd shop a bit, but, I'd buy it in a second, regardless of price. Saeed on accuratereloading fits that description, and, any gun he buys is worth what he is willing to pay. Lot of millionaires around, and, they tend to elevate prices for some of us, but, that's our fault for not being millionaires.
 
Actually, I think it comes down to evaluating whether the "extra features" on a gun are worth the higher price.

For example, RIA makes a good, serviceable 1911. For the average guy, spending $399 on an RIA versus $499 for a Springfield means the RIA is a better value - for him. For the guy who wants to build up a "race gun", the Springfield chassis may be more desireable and a better value.

The extra features may be worth the price to you when it comes to your needs. Is the Rohrbaugh 9mm worth the huge premium over a Kel-Tec or Bersa .380? You have to answer that question.

The second 'value' is best asked by "what do I get for my money?" It used to be that nickel plated revolvers only cost an extra $20-$30 at the time of purchase, but often demanded an extra $50-$90 at the time of resale. In that case, a nickel revolver did "give" you extra value down the road. (But a shiny gun might not be a good value for a police officer who works nights.)

If Brand "K" and Brand "S" pistols are within about $50 of each other, which is the better value if they're comparably equipped? Brand "K" has a melted finish but brand "S" has a rail to mount a laser or light. If you'd never mount an accessory and brand "S" is $50 more, it's money you don't need to spend.

Our own prejudices some out here too. Those who dislike cast frames will bash the Rock Island pistols. Others will complain about MIM, plastic or aluminum parts. Still others will tout Polymer frames as best with metal frames being outdated. Sometimes I think people seize upon anything they can just to complain.
 
redrick:


+1 you can't put CZ in with that group.
Click to expand...


I read an article about CZs, and the history of the CZ/VZ factory all the way back to when the Germans during WWII took over the factory and even before.

Well, as it was giving some history on the CZ75, it stated that the gun was under the Soviet regime, and the CZ's were not imported to the US (Long story short), but the ones that got here in the 80s, they were getting around $800-900.

Take that with a grain of salt.....I can't back it up with fact's.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top