Whitetail deer bullet performance

C

centralmainehunters

New member
Every brand of ammo makes claims of the best most effective bullet. But each gun shoots differently and there is no magic bullet. After some trial and error, I discovered that the federal fusion ammo is the most effective from our .223 bolt. This year I used a 25-06 with hornady whitetail ammo (I believe its their interlock bullet). I had my big moment at about 15yards and put the bullet it the best place I could thru the brush with a head on shot. I didn't hit any shoulder bone, just punched hole in the ribs a liitle bigger the a golf ball. I didn't get any pass thru, I never found the bullet, it never touched the other side of the rib cage. I had trouble finding the entrance wound, in fact I felt it before I saw it. I never had any blood to follow, it didn't run out of ear shot fortunately. So although the bullet did exactly what is was supposed to, one shot, dead deer in less than 50 yards, I expected the deer to drop right there, or at least stumble or hesitate. Im still new to the ballistic side of hunting, so perhaps my understanding is incorrect, or was this just a case where the bullet wasn't ideal for the type of shot?
 
OK, bear with me for a few questions: 1) Was it a full on frontal shot? If so how did you hit a rib? 2) What weight bullet were you shooting 3) you said "through the brush", how much brush, could the bullet have clipped some before impact? 4) How much internal damage was there, did it look like a lot or not.

Not uncommon for an otherwise good bullet when impacting a close range, i.e. near muzzle velocity and from a fairly high velocity round like the .25-06 to come apart inside. Sometimes you will get the bang/flop action from a massive energy dump inside the chest cavity, other times they are simply dead on their feet and it takes a few seconds for them to bleed out iternally. Granted I like exit holes to go along with internal damage, but honestly a 50 yard run with internals gone and a dead deer at the end is not bad at all in my opinion. More often than not without a major bone hit, you don't get much of a reaction to the shot, except for the common Jump/Kick that usually signals you will be needing your tag and knife.
 
Even a deer that has its heart completely blown out can run quite a ways. The ONLY way to ensure that a deer drops right away is a shot that incapacitates his central nervous system (i.e. spine/neck trauma). That is why every hunter needs good tracking skills.
 
As mentioned above, hard to second hand the info not knowing exactly all of the circumstances.

Head on shot usually doesn't result in a hole in the ribs unless that was the exit wound. Secondly even when the heart and lung are turned into mush, they still have oxygenated blood in their brain and muscles to make things move and get the heck out of dodge. It might only last for a few seconds, but as you found a few seconds is all it takes.

I shot just a little over a hundred pound doe with a 95gr Ballistic Tip the year they came out at around 150yds. I aimed right behind the curl of the shoulder and as the trigger broke she took a step. The bullet went through the onside leg, and cut a gap out of the chest which looked like you used a 3# coffee can, like a cookie cutter. Took out both lungs and the heart literally, as what was left of them, fell out of the hole. She ran a good hundred yards and straight into a huge oak tree before coming to a stop. I would have shot her again had I not seen the total mess I made with the first shot. I knew she wasn't going far but never in my widest imagination did I think she would have made it that far much less in a full on run. I didn't even know I hit her leg until I walked up to her and it was only there by what little skin was still intact.

Now in your case, you can bet that a 100 or even a 117gr Hornady bullet rocking out just over 3000fps and hitting something within 50yd is going to turn inside out. How much so will depend on how much bone it hits as it is doing so. From the description of your shot, the hole you saw is the exit hole and I would wager that somewhere in the front of the neck you will find the entry.
 
OK, so some clarifying is needed. It wasn't full head on, maybe 15 degrees variation. I tucked the bullet just under his right shoulder blade which is where the only rib damage was and passed it through his liver. I tried to avoid center chest because the was a cluster of sapling in front of him and was afraid of deflection causing the bullet path to deviate away from the vitals, I was shooting slighty downhill.
 
My thought was that it may have just been the extremely close range and high speed of the round as noted by another poster. Im just looking for opinions and experiences from others.
 
They are all good bullets. Most all of them do exactly what they are designed to do. The key is for the shooter to understand what each bullet is designed to do and choose the right bullet for the job.

Bullets range from very soft, meant to expand very quickly, to very hard, meant to stay together and penetrate deeply. Everything else is somewhere in between. Some will be more accurate than others, but that is a different discussion.

Soft bullets that hit vitals tend to kill quickly, but do a poor job if shots are on really large game or at odd angles where they can't reach vitals. Soft bullets are usually better used at longer ranges where speed has slowed down and they don't expand too quickly.

Harder bullets penetrate deeper and are more likely to reach vitals, but game tends to stay on their feet and run farther after even good hits.

I tend to lean toward bullets that are a little on the hard side. They may not always result in the bang/flop kills everyone wants. But in my opinion anyway, will more than likely make a kill. Nothing wrong with choosing a softer bullet, especially if longer shots are expected, or if DRT is important. You just have to carefully pick your shots.

Pick one, understand what it is meant to do and don't ask the bullet to do a job it wasn't designed to do and it'll most likely work if put in the right spot.
 
Yep, sometimes they just seem to run much further than you think would be possible. Years ago I shot a medium sized doe at 80 yards. She was facing me, but at an angle. I put the bullet in front of her left shoulder, angling down. Should have taken the heart out. She took off like a rocket, but I knew she was already dead when the bullet hit her. But...I couldn't find her. I looked and looked and my abusive cousin showed up to help, while he had a fine old time giving me trouble about my poor shooting. He even said I missed. No stinkin way that happened. But...no deer. I went on back to the house, but showed up again the next morning and started looking again. I found one hoof sticking out of some leaves. The doe had died running at full speed and slid along the ground and self buried herself in a thick layer of leaves. Who'd a thunk it...
 
If you are going to pile a deer up (dead righ there) there are two ways to do it.
1. Destroy or disconnect the CNS.
2. Smash both front shoulders.

I personally take lung shots that do not mess up much meat. I do not mind tracking. 99% of the time, the 7 Rum pushing a Berger will drop deer DRT even with a lung shot. I only hunt with the RUM on rare occasion.

Invest in a tracking dog.
 
I was in So, Carolina a few weeks ago and had a spike buck come out of the thick woods and head right towards me down the shooting lane at about 70 or so yards, I was shooting a 243 with 85 gr hollow points. Took him in the chest just to the left of center, he jumped about 4 feet straight up, took off but he didnt go far, I heard him drop and shuffle in the leaves for about 2 to 3 seconds, then nothing. Small entrance wound, no blood and no exit wound. When we gutted him (never found the bullet) found massive damage to the shoulder and ribs on the side I hit him on. I do believe that the bullet was stopped by the ribs. I had never shot a deer dead on in the chest before and I dont think I would ever do it again. To much distance for the bullet to travel before even having a chance to exit, not good down south where it is so thick.
 
DRT isn't what Im looking for. My favorite part of bow season is helping others track their deer (I don't bow hunt). I enjoy the whole process from mapping terrain preseason to grinding my own meat after the hunt. The softer vs harder bullet argument I think is more what I was looking to hear about. I tend to be in situations where 100 yards is more than max distance, Now I know that a 25-06 isn't ideal for this range, but I like that if I want to use it in other scenarios I can be confident in the accuracy and ability to do the job.
With this in mind, what recommendations would people make for my intented use?
I agree that the bullet did exactly what it was supposed to. It jellied most of the tissue right around the entrance, It did penetrate fairly well, But it wasn't the ideal bullet for that particular shot and most likely for any subsequent shots I will be taking while deer hunting on my favorite public land.
 
FYI 120gr Hornady whitetail series was the bullet in question. I also had the Hornady Superformance 120gr. It was by sheer coincidence that the interlock bullet was chambered, I had 2 of each on me and had used both for sighting in the rifle with minimal difference at 100 yards.

I think that is what has caused me to question it at all. Which of the two would have been more effective in that instance, and which is the more proficient round for the type of shots I'm most likely to encounter.
 
I prefer my 270 for MN whitetails. But when I want something much much faster and near as accurate. I get out the old 25-06 for that purpose.
As far as bullet performance "I do not like bullets that leave a exit hole when purposely fired into the ribs of my big game animals."
That OP is a sure sign that some of my bullets energy is escaping thru the bullets exit hole. I want my bullet/s to dump all their energy into my quarry's internal chest cavity so's to humanly quicken its demise. If that means the bullet chosen has to fragment to accommodate that requirement. So be it. Afterall it's all about shot placement with me. I don't want or need a wounded bleeder pumping blood thru-out my woods. That only draws a pack of local Grey Wolves into my area shortly after dusk and more than likely I will loose that wounded deer to those nasty dogs before I can reach it in time. BTW: A straight on brisket shot will quite often destroy any bullets known performance. I shy away from making those shots myself and prefer waiting for a better opportunity. But sometimes it is what it is and one does the best they can. You made such a shot and harvested a deer. Perfect outcome to a days hunt> I would say.
 
Taking the "Right"shot means everything to me, and I want bullets to expand and demolish all vital tissue in its path and pass through. Usually bullets that are light in the jackets will come apart and wont pass through, so I like a bonded bullet.
And I hate shooting "eatin meat" broadside behind shoulders with bullet tucked right behind that hinge...
 
depends

What a deer does when hit with any bullet seems to vary markedly. And they get hit and run so often, that I do not expect them to drop at the shot. If they do, its a bonus, but it does not trouble me if a deer runs a short dx then expires, as it seems most do. I've had them drop to the shot with cals as light as .243 and 7.62x39, and run 50-75 yds or more when hammered with .270 or .308.

I do believe that a close range muzzle blast must be horribly loud to a deer, and may startle it so badly, and dump adrenalin so heavily (along with whatever it may feel of the wound), that they can run some distance after sustaining terrible damage.

Contrastly, I've double lunged deer with bow, and had them bounce, stop, and look around before toppling. And I liver shot a doe once that went back to eating. No muzzle blast, less panic reaction....maybe.
 
No muzzle blast, less panic reaction....maybe
Click to expand...
I believe that's true.
I noticed long ago that many deer often won't leave the field when shot at with a muzzleloader that doesn't have the blast of a centerfire rifle

(Not the deer that are shot, just others in the same field)
 
this may very well be true. And to the previous poster referencing "eatin meat", this is exactly why this thread was started. I am very much a novice meat processor. But as part of tradition and also in part from necessity, we cut and process our own deer. I learned from my parents as a child and after many forgotten lessons and cloudy years, I have decided to revive the tradition with my own brood of children. And when you are trying to make each deer as bountiful as possible, bullet choice makes a big difference, just barely behind shot placement.
 
I like bullets to exit as well. Put the bullet through the vitals, and give a blood trail any time. Bullet placement is way way above bullet construction when it comes to not ruining meat. And it usually looks worse than it is. And I have seen worse, when younger I hunted with a 7mm mag filled with maxed out loads and 139 grain bullet, even some them ran. A little trimming maDe it better quickly, but the simplest is don't shoot the parts you want to eat. Ribs behind shoulders is my favorite. Take both lungs,
and usually a short run to a dead deer. Of course things don't always go as planned, that's when the lititle extra penetration and exit can be really helpful.
 
I believe your bullet behaved exactly how anyone would expect it to act. OP I'm not sure that you stated but if all your shots are gonna be close range. And you are shooting a fast round like a 25-06. I'd be looking at premium bonded or monolithic bullets like the Nosler Partition, Accubond, Swift Scirocco, TTSX, Hornady Interbond, GMX etc.

It seems like you are hunting in thick wooded areas where you have to take the shot "given" and can't exactly wait till you get a good "broadside" shot. If that is the case I would 100% be looking at premium bullets like the ones mentioned above to be sure you can reach vitals on "weird" angles.
 
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