while many of the newly elected Democrats may not be leftists...

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....that was a cheap shot blanket statement that has no basis in what Christians believe is a right direction for this country.
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Most Christians are advocates of separation of church and state...they don;t want the government telling them when and where they can pray.
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Servo77,
My comment was directed towards the far-right, not Christians. I apologize if I wasn't clear about that.
A small group of Far right Christians managed to hijack the Republican party, and as a result, alienated everyone else. An example is Katherine Harris. She goes and declares that voting for a non-Christian is a vote for sin. In other words, Christian view are the only valid ones, as she sees it.

As a non-Christian, am I supposed to vote for that?

When the government is telling a religous group what they can and cannot teach IN THEIR OWN BUILDING....that is a problem.
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Yes it is, IN THEIR OWN BUILDING, but I've heard time and time again, on this site and others that this nation is a Christian nation, and only Christian values should be taught in public schools.
 
My biggest concern is that we're going to see cross-dressers parading up and down the aisles of Congress.
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Given all the recent scandals, those that do will probably be Republicans.
To borrow their catchphrase,
"there's plenty of room under the big tent for all"

The closet, however, is full.
 
How about just general values that apply to everyone. WHo is to say that Christian values are any better than Jewish or Agnostic values. Remeber, Christian values, did at one time, inclued murdering millions of people. It is not like that anymore, but what seems to be a "perfect" religion is not always what it seems to be. There is no religion that has the bloody past like Christianity. Anyway, I don't think religion should matter at all beucase if you are a genuinly good person that should be all that matters. If your personal beliefs get in the way of, lets say, helping people or doing what is right, how good are you religious beliefs then? I have nothing against religion, it makes a lot of people better people, but it shouldn't matter as much as the core values that dirve people to do great things on their own. Hope that makes sense:)
 
but by the same token, I don't think free expression of religion (yes, even in schools and other public places) should be a problem.

Look, people on all sides of all belief systems feel they are right in their position, so it is generally accepted that people will try to push their agenda. That is what fuels democracy.

Whether religious or secular, people want to shape the future of their world according to their beliefs. The problem is, people tend to treat the devout as though they can just separate their religious values from everything else. Whether they are right or wrong, they are entitled to their beliefs and trying to influence policy based off that. Anything less would be undemocratic. Whether their policies are correct or misguided is up to the people to decide.

Religion is not a hobby. It is not something most involved can just turn off for the public in order to not offend anyone.

Desert Heat.....how familiar are you with the actual teaching of Jesus?....I don;t believe that he ever advocated the killing of millions. Don't confuse the bloody past of a religious organization more concerned with power and politics (the medieval catholic church) with the actual doctrine of a faith. What someone claims to be and what they are often are two different things ;).

Most of what you say makes sense and I think at the end of the day people need to want to do good....I just don't like the broad brush strokes in defining Christians. They get a really bad rap when in fact you have the many people like Mother Teresea (spelling?) who accomplish great things for humanity and who are devout Christians. Besides, most Christian values (love, faith, hope, charity, sacrifice, etc.) are universally accepted as good by most people (would you agree?). The problem lies in Christianity's salvation aspects and that is where people disagree; and that part is not being forced down anyone's throat in any public arena.
 
DH: Being as I'm an atheist, I'm inclined to agree, so I'm not trying to stifle your speech. However, I smell a thread lock coming.
 
I'm not sure how it works, but Pelosi as Speaker is not a done deal. The House has to decide, I think. Somebody else probably knows the details.

badbob
 
I'm not sure how it works, but Pelosi as Speaker is not a done deal. The House has to decide, I think. Somebody else probably knows the details.
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Dunno either. I think they flip commemorative coins for it.:D
 
Commemorative Coin....HAHA! :D

I wonder if its one-sided? :eek:

I hope no one would thread-lock and honest discussion that has not involved anyone insulting anyone....

But just in case....let's get back to the guns (which we all do agree on :)).
 
One more post derailing this thread to a debate on religion and I'll lock it. I allowed the first few in hopes that we'd get back on track. I won't, however, allow it to become a full blown religious debate.
Rich
 
Me too. Everyone can be a smartass at times, but don't get me wrong I don't think it is anything to get upset about. If you take ME seriously, and get upset over what I say, there is something wrong. I am nobody important and a pretty outrageous thinker. Don't take what I say very serious, please, I just want a stimulating conversation and I need to be put in place when I start getting too extreme.
 
good point...Now...back on track...

ANyone know a website were we can find all the new Dems and their stance on gun control issues?

Rich...you seem to think that the new Dems more moderate viewpoints can offset the liberalism of the leadership....

....but I have always been under the impression that most "newly" elected individuals don't have a lot of pull and often have to fall lockstep in line in order to maintain support for re-election.

Or do you think the "new guys" will be able to wrangle the ultra-left? ESpecially on gun issuees because many of these guys come from "red" states.
 
Well, they say that these Dems are a little more conservative than most, so maybe there is hope for our guns still. One thing is for sure, there is no way that Polosi gaining power is going to help the gun owners in any way.
 
Servo-
It's a good question. The Freshmen need their party for re-election, certainly; but they need their Constituents even more. Almost without exception, they're walking in knowing that their hold is tenuous at best; they weren't "voted in", their opponents were "voted out". All by very narrow margins.

Additionally, they have the Lieberman example. The guy was shunned by his own party but won handily as an Independent because he refused to sell out his principles. You don't have to like the guy to respect that fact.

So, the question is gonna be whether the frosh bend to Nancy and Co's will or if Nancy and Co bend to the Voters' will. Additionally, you have Bill and Hill in the background with enormous power. Bill was always a moderate, politically, and Hill has learned to cast herself in that light. They want the White House in '08. To get it, they'll be pushing for a kinder, gentler Dem Party 'till then.

After '08, if Hillary takes the prize, all bets are off. She's as far left as they come.

Rich
 
Agreed, they have to set up for a win in '08. They cant afford to start making folks mad right now with gun control. Pelosi has already said she wants to get rid of the tax cuts in her 'first 100 hours.'

Taxes going up killed George Sr., it sure wont help the Dems. And if the Dems keep whining about how bad the economy is, how can they justify raising taxes?

So what have we learned? Take your next tax rebate and buy lots of new guns. You may not see either in a few years :)
 
After '08, if Hillary takes the prize, all bets are off. She's as far left as they come
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This begs a different question, though:

Are the hardcore lefties willing to put their necks on the chopping block to further their agenda?

They did in 94, and heads rolled. As rabid as they may be, they can't ignore that fact. If they expect to stay in power, they'll have to keep in touch with America. The hard left base that supports the radical agenda is not enough to keep them in. They have to cater to the middle, a fact that the republican party lost sight of.

When parties get complete control, they get lazy and complacent. Then they get reminded.
 
while many of the newly elected Democrats may not be leftists...
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When Pelosi finds out how hard it is for her to deal with Conservative Democrats...

And how difficult it will be to manipulate the news media...

Her frustration will look like Super-Grade PMS...

But, then, that would be redundant... :rolleyes: ;) :D


She'll feel better when she gets to do lunch with Senator Ms Clinton. :D :D
 
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