Which would you pick for woods carry

If you are concerned about 4 legged threats 40 S&W is a huge step ahead of 45. My personal preference is a G20 or G29 loaded with 200 gr DoubleTap ammo at 1300 fps. They offer the same bullet in 40 S&W @ 1100 fps with a 4.5" barrel. I used a G23 with this load before upgrading to 10mm.

There is nothing in 45 ACP that will come close to the penetration you'd get from that load. Even typical 180 gr factory loads at about 1000 fps will out penetrate anything in 45 ACP.

by now I'm sure you've learned, when it comes to dangerous game, mass is what you need.
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Penetration is what you need. Within the same caliber and everything else being equal mass equals penetration. But when comparing different calibers the bullets sectional density and construction come into play. Even with the best bullets 45 is does not penetrate well. 230 gr bullets are heavy, but not really heavy in relation to the caliber.
 
I have seen a 255 SWC, cruising about 900 fps from a 1911, bore across the shoulders of a 400 pound hog- bones and all. It was recovered under the hide of the off-side shoulder with about 1/4" missing from its nose.
 
"Woods carry"? This begs the question: For what purpose? The chance of wild animal attack for almost all of us (save for Alaskans) on this forum is less likely that being struck by lightning. And from the responses to the O.P. as to caliber/fire power suggested, that seems to be the general focus of these kinds of, "What gun for woods carry", posts. Nevertheless, I always carry a gun when I go into my small woods. But, I anticipate human-harmless targets of opportunity...the occasional opossum, raccoon, fox, and I would hope to someday get a shot at the coyote that killed and ate my pet goose. Therefore, sometimes I carry a Browning Buckmark .22 rim-fire, a .32 S&W Long, or after the snow melt this year, my newly acquired circa 1959 K38. They are my "woods guns" inasmuch as I do not fantasize about Wolf, Cougar, Bear, Wild Boar, or even human attack...but I do worry about being hit by lightning however.

Just curious, when was the last Cougar attack in Ohio?
 
Considering where you say you would hike, either would do.

But, you can get heavier springs for your 1911 and shoot .45 Supers.

230 gr fp-fmj at 1100 ought to take care of any critter you might encounter, two or four legged.

Deaf
 
what animals would lurk in woods that would pose a danger?
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In general, animals become more dangerous when they are:

1. scared/surprised/cornered
2. injured
3. sick/rabid
4. perceiving you as a threat to their young
5. perceiving you as competition for food

People often consider larger animals like bears that could kill you in a hurry. Remember that "danger" includes any injury, especially when there is a risk of infection. Raccoons, badgers, even squirrels could be dangerous under some of the above circumstances. The bottom line is if you see a wild animal, no matter how cute, keep a safe distance and be vigilant.
 
Maybe not too likely but get too close to a wild sow with piglets and see what happens. She will run you down and rip you to shreds if she can.
 
Pepper spray

A 40 oz. can of Pepper spray will save your butt. $40

Save the popguns for 2 legged villains.

Honest, I live in British Columbia - we can't carry handguns, so 12 gu. with slugs is standard bear medicine. But you do find in the news, articles where people have used bear spray effectively to deter an attack.
 
C7,

It don't work that way. The studies on pepper spray .vs. guns, while showing more were detered by the spray, also showed only a small number of the bears detered by the spray were charging, yet virtually all the bears stopped by guns WERE charging.


So I'd still really on the gun IF you are a good shot with a steady hand.

Deaf
 
The last thing I will use is bear spray. What if the wind is blowing, and just because the animals eyes are burning and nose is burning does not mean it will stop it. I would think the pepper spray would make it even more angry. Adrenaline especially that of a high willpower beast can completely block out pain or even non functional organs. A deer can run 200+ yards with a large hole in its heart. I wouldn't risk "burning" an animals eyes and nose as defense. I would much rather put a hole through the skull, you have to aim the gun or the spray, ID rather be sending a bullet down range than some peppery mist
 
The bear spray I carry is UDAP brand. Available at Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse I believe. Go to the UDAP website and read the testimonials. I suppose you can say they are all lying, but I say not likely. Being "hit" in the nose with spray is apparently a Really painful experience for a bear, they have so many sensors there...A number of the testimonials involved charging Grizzlies, and I am not aware of the study saying the spray only works on bears that are not charging.

And it's a strong spray, designed to go 20 feet. Into a strong headwind, maybe there are issues, but not otherwise. I would much rather go with spray than merely wound a big bear with a gun, and have it tear me to pieces in a rage.

P71, I suggest you read up more on spray, its effect on bears is much more powerful than you seem to think. Also, I am suggesting the spray for bears primarily. The pistol for everything else.
 
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And tell me, will this spray stop attacks on other people that are farther than 20 ft.? Like I said, the studies do not have very many charging bears stopped by the sprays. Yes, SOME were detered but most of the cases the bears were not charging all out (called bluff charging where they posture but not a full direct run at the ones being attacked.)

The sprays do have uses. If the bears are bluff charging or just close by and you want them to leave, then yes they are the best choice. But when an animal has decided to tear you, or others nearby, limb from limb, I suggest a powerful gun (preferably a rifle or shotgun.)

Deaf
 
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Don't get cheap now.

from the original poster : I cannot afford a bigger more powerful handgun, and will not lug around a 7+ pound rifle 24/7 while hiking/camping

You have to bring enough gun. A used 12 Gu. for $300 is cheap insurance.

A long time contractor in Northern B.C. (out in the middle of nowhere) has Bear Spray, a 12 Gu. and a dog. The dog is tied up and used as an alarm system.

Being in Bear country, you are responsible for your own well being. Bring ALL the right tools.
 
The last thing I will use is bear spray.
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I think Deaf raises some valid concerns that should be taken into account, but just because a bear is seen does not mean it is attacking. Would you feel inclined to shoot a bear just because you saw one? In this case, it is worth noting that any shot that does not kill outright, could well encourage the very attack that one would hope to avoid.

It is also worth noting that all across the animal kingdom creatures have used their own "pepper sprays" of one sort or another to excellent affect and a bear's eyes and nose are its life, even more than its teeth. They do act to protect them.

So...it is a door that swings both ways.

All the same, if I were caught out, then I'd doubtless go for my gun, but if I have some warning (rustling in the brush), I'd draw both and probably spray first if initial contact was not enough to make a bear double back.
 
I agree James.

If they are not actively attacking, sure use the spray to make them go away (and fear human contact), but if they are comming in to attack, it's deadly force time... And one had better be a good shot with a powerful gun, for its not the time for half measures or poor skills.

And this goes for any dangerous animals you might meet in the woods, not just bears.

Here in Texas, I might theoretically meet a black bear (about the same chance of seeing Big Foot), but hogs and coyotes are plentiful. Even the odd cougar is out there. Most dangerous are the mosquito and tick (and I'm not joking.) Next in danger is the various snakes.

If you guys want to hike way back here in Texas, many places with no trails and no law, go down to Sam Houston National Forrest. I hear there are dinosaurs and space aliens out there.


Deaf
 
I cannot afford a bigger more powerful handgun, and will not lug around a 7+ pound rifle 24/7 while hiking/camping...You have to bring enough gun. A used 12 Gu. for $300 is cheap insurance.
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Good practical post, C7AR, to this Walter Mitty type question. Handguns, in general, are a p...poor substitute for common sense and/or a good 12 ga. That's why Alaska State Troopers carry and use both. Their hand gun is a distant back up to the above.

Rod
 
Some posters may not realize that I will not be in big bear country , but small bear country. Tennessee, Kentucky, Pennsylvania. There is no reason to carry around a 12gauge. A shot or two to the face/skull of a black bear/ cougar should bring it down or stop it. I have seen on Alaska state troopers, an officer shot a caribou between the eyes with his carry .40, and dropped it. Now I know that a caribou skull and a black bear skull are much different and the angles would be different on a charging bear, but I am quite sure a hard, hot, heavy bullet from either a .40 or .45 could bust through what, 1/2"-1 1/2 inches of bone. I doubt I will ever get attacked, and I don't xamp very often, but more like once a year when I have my week of vacation from work. It's nice to get out of the city. I have been in spitting distance of 2 Mt. Lions and a cub, in the dark. I'd they wanted to kill me they could have easily, if it wasn't for my led light and throwing rocks they may have gotten me and I would not be here typing right now. I didn't have a weapon of any sort not even a knife, ever since then I have sworn to not enter the woods without a handgun. That was the scariest thing that has ever happened to me in my 22yrs of existence
 
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