Which test range with a less than accurate AR?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
My AR does OK, but nothing more.

The very best I have managed was 3MOA and that was at 300m although historically I had struggled to even get hits on paper due to scope settings and unknown trajectories.

Prior to that, I'd managed about 3.5-4MOA at 100M.

I have two lots of loaded cases that I was to test for accuracy. People often say that 300M is better for checking charge weight performance but that is only true if you hit the paper.

For that reason I am leaning toward 100M as my test range. Are there any major reasons you'd suggest moving to 300M that I should consider?
 
If you can't "hit the paper", you're NOT going to learn much. 100 yards is plenty to make primary evaluations of ammo performance. I never shoot further until a load shows it's exceptional at that distance.
My perception is this: there's little need or gain for shooting more a 3 shot group. If you're getting good 3 shot groups,(and you feel the need) try some 5 shot strings. Unless you're a dedicated target shooter, all the longer strings(10 shots or more) do is heat up the barrel and tire out the shooter.
 
I've loaded 5 of each but I do wait a minute or so between shorts. Th st and the round robin technique should minimise barrel performance deviations.
 
Do you have a scope? Even of you don't like scopes, you should get a cheap decent one and find out, one: evaluating accuracy of handloads and , two: find out if just really bad with irons so you can find out how to correct it. For affordability, may o recommend a 3-9x Bushnell AR optics with a Nikon P-223 mount. You can always resale pretty Mich as new if only using a few times, but ill bet your rifle is twice as accurate as you think, and I would have a hard time really working up loads to a finite degree running irons. Just a thought, Mayne you have a scope already, and if so, I would seriously check out your mounting system.
 
I agree 3 shots dont show much.
I usually do 5 shot runs, Then when one looks promising I load 20 to verify the load.
More than once I have changed my mind on the 20 shot test and decided to change powder.

Biggest thing with the 223/5.56 AR is to match the bullet to the twist rate.

I have a 1-9 twist 16inch carbine upper that mo matter what I could never get a load I really liked.
Shooting 55gr pills is akin to shooting a shot gun at 100 yards. I have finally gotten a serviceable load when I changed to 65gr pills.

I finally got smart and went old school and built a 1-12 rifle length upper.
Stoner was a genius, He knew what made the 223 tick.
Thing is a friggin Tack driver with 55gr pills.
 
I have a 1-4x24 vx2 fitted. Sadly my 1:7 twist may be better suited to heavier bullets but these 62gr are the most (read only) affordable I've found.

If I had known then what I know now about twist rates, bullets and more importantly the ammo and component selection here on the ground, I might have looked for a 1:10 twist.

As far as the accuracy goes it does OK and things have improved greatly since the first outings but the weak links remain the trigger, unfloated barrel and a dodgy shooter!

In reverse order!
 
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I'm sorry for asking, maybe this is a rude question......but why ate the heavy weight bullets too over priced? If I stick with the Hornady line, I'm looking at a 5c difference between any grain of VMax under 60gr and the 68-75gr Match HPBT. Is it just really a market that has no competition on your side of the country? I can't see 5$ being a stretch for anyone that could afford a rifle in the first place. And I have yet to load any plain old Hornady 55gr SP for any twist rate that wasn't moderately accurate, 2ish MOA and those are about as cheap as you can get here without buying pulls or PPU bullets. What are the affordable options for you? It doesn't have to be heavy to group good at 100yds, I actually think at those distances a lighter, flat based, bullet is actually slightly better, so long as its a quality bullet.

Worst bullets in order for worse to worser that I have tried. xM anything, pulls/blems and even new, second Winchester anything, third Remington anything and finally,, although not nearly as bad....privi. now this doesn't include way off private brands.
 
I'm sorry for asking, maybe this is a rude question......but why ate the heavy weight bullets too over priced?
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My job... :p

Seriously though, while a better paid job would certainly help, the biggest issue is the market. Estonia houses 1.3million people. About a couple of dozen K of them are firearms owners. Most are hunters and, unless you're shooting small game, that means 6.5mm or more, so .223 is not that popular.

Semi auto owners are probably mainly sports/comp shooters and I imagine they number in the low thousands if not mere hundreds. So anyone who sells this calibre can't make money through bulk.

The cheapest copper jacket ammo I've found is about €0.35 a shot and that is an exception. All other brands are closer to €0.70.

So in come reloading components: the usual price for loose bullets from a decent brand (Hornady, Lapua etc) is about €0.35 to €0.45 a bullet.

The only .224 bullet I have found that makes reloading even remotely economically viable for me by merely matching that cheapest factory ammo price were the PRVI 62gr FMJBTs.

I don't expect these loads to suddenly rustle up 1.5MOA performance, but if they either match or do better than my existing factory fair then I have a means of weathering shortages in stocks of my own finances.

Who knows, they may do quite well in which case I have lots of once fired brass to work through...

In short, the answer to your question is choice, availability, economics and personal finances in no particular order!
 
I have shot a lot of 223 and 55gr. Bullets out of the AR with 1/9 twist (even 1/7) .
This was 20 years ago and all Colt Rifles . Never had one shoot less than One inch at 100 YD .

All shot the best when slowed down (2,400 FPS OR LESS)

I also have a Bench Rifle in 223 (a fun gun) it is a 1/14 twist .
I shoot 52gr. bullets at around 2,200 FPS .
At 100 YD it will cut a 30 Cal hole all day.
 
If you are still using bulk PPU bullets....
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...he says!! :D

Bought them before the summer and I haven't shot a single one yet!! I've spent so much time trying to sort my AR with my factory ammo that I've not had the time to get to the range to try out my initial N135 test string, let alone this new N140 batch!!

Any way, I think that 100m should be fine under the circumstances
 
I'm at work right now, but I will post a pic of my 200 yard work up, using Hornady 75, SMK's 77 and PPU 75. Yes the PPU is the worse of the three, but just barely, can you get a hold of the 75's?

Just to let you know, , if you shop at an LGS here in the states, cheap Hornady is 14$ a box and expensive Hornady is 25$ a box, so I suppose about less than a 1/3 of your prices. And that's retail store....minus 5$ if buying online.


These are all 200 yards, not 250 like the Privi target says. Discount hole at bottom, unrelated. The privi obviously not as tight as the others, but still, especially considering my skill level at the time. But, point is, if privi has 75's over there, try them out.

Sorry, group size not shown, but appear to be right at COAL of said bullet. This is a cheap 16" NATO 1:7 barrel. All loads have between 22-23gr of compressed 4064. The PPU bullets were consistent with diameter/length but had a bumpy unpolished jacket, twas odd, just like the skipped the final polish of the cup, and the jacket appeared thicker than other brands. Good luck James
 
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Don't get caught up in the certain weight bullets only work on certain twist rates..I have seem bullet sthat "shouldn't work" in certain twist rates work ..I have seen budget match rounds do well.. I have seen budget 69grain ADI match out of a 1:8twist 18in barrel ring 15×18in steel at 900yards with 10x magnification..Also seen the same twist rate barrel shoot 77grn an 40 grn equally well.
 
I totally agree, you need to try them all. I just shot the best two groups of my life using 40gr VMAX at low velocity with that same 1:7 twist barrel, I was pretty upset that I have spent the last 3 years ONLY trying 64 and up, and they are always way more costlier, but really since I prefer to have loads that keep consistent MOA out to 500yd, I'm sure the 40gr's will never be the "best" bullet for me, but I did shot my very first SUB moa group of my life, ever, with the 40gr at 100yards

Top 2 dots are sight ins with new 18x scope. The middle and bottom are five shot using a blind load(no work up) of 40gr Vmax with CFE223. expected poor accuracy, just loaded up for pumpkin busting, turns out everything I was told about fast twists, light bullets and slow powders was simply incorrect. Need more testing, could have just been the new scope.....doubt it. These groups are a little too good.


 
The PPU bullets were consistent with diameter/length but had a bumpy unpolished jacket, twas odd, just like the skipped the final polish of the cup
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Well, the ones I have look nice, if I'm honest. Very uniform to my eye and very smooth, but time will tell.

75s: if I see heavier at a decent price, I'll have a go but the one's I've found have proved to be the only ones so far: nothing else I've seen comes close, but then my searches in Germany and Poland are limited to what my mastery of google translate can conjure up. So searches are not that broad.

Now. My groups are so far from those you've pictured, it's not funny, but that can be explained by the culprits I listed earlier. My weak power scope doesn't help, but I wanted wide field of view and for comps I don't need tight groups, just hits in the alpha zone so the 1-4x is fine and at close ranges of 10yds, the 1x is a must if scoped.

Still, factory ammo did gave me a 3-ish MOA group at 300m and that was a 10-shot group, so it can perform adequately.
Will the 62s be noticeably better? I hope to know that in the not too distant future.
 
The only .224 bullet I have found that makes reloading even remotely economically viable for me by merely matching that cheapest factory ammo price were the PRVI 62gr FMJBTs.
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I get what you're saying about availability and cost but you must compare apples to apples . When loading match bullets ( SMK , A-Max etc ) I compare my cost of loading those to the cost to buy Federal GMM or Black hills factory ammo . Right now match grade factory 308 is about $1.20 each and 223 match ammo is close to the same . I load my 308 stuff for just under $.60 each and 223 at about $.40 each . My cheap FMJ plinking loads aren't all that much less . Now that's based on prices here in the US .

How much is the best match factory ammo there ? Now compare that price to what you can load match grade ammo for . I have found you save much less money trying to save money based on the lower end ammo . The real money saved is in loading match grade ammo . If you have to pay $.80 per bullet that should put you in the $1 a round range . That sounds like a lot but how much is factory Black hills or Fed GMM ammo there . I'd bet WAY more then a buck a round .


4 moa is not good . I can't think of any load combo I have that is over 2 moa and most are at least 1 moa . That's including the cheap 55gr Win stuff I get at the gun show . Also I do my load work up with a 16" 1-7 with mil-spec trigger and all my 55gr bullets . Both Win & Hornady are right at 1 moa at 100yds . The faster twist should not be your issue unless your bullets are really unbalanced .

Buy your self a box of 69gr smk and see what those do for you . You'd be surprised how much the bullet matters .
 
They don't sell that type of ammo. The market simply isn't there. You can buy S&B jsp or Hornady equivalents at high prices. Or Barnaul or what I shoot.

The apple to apple point is noted but if you can't afford apples you buy oranges or try to load them yourself.

My situation is I either shoot Fiocchi, load my own for about the same price with similar or better performance or cheaper with similar or better performance. Other choices either don't exist or are too expensive so I just don't factor them into the equation.
 
"...3MOA and that was at 300m..." Isn't exactly shabby with a stock rifle, but 100 is the standard.
A consistent 3.5-4 MOA at 100M indicates the rifle doesn't like the load or the trigger needs work. The 'consistent' part eliminates the shooter. As mentioned, the 'bulk' bullets won't help. Lapua stuff any less expensive at the top of the Baltic?
 
Lapua stuff any less expensive at the top of the Baltic?
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No... :( If anything it might be a bit more.

Recreational shooting is a really expensive pursuit in this country, even more so given the average salaries.

A shame, but there it is.
I console myself with the fact that it is at least allowed.
 
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